Tantric Quest by Daniel Odier: A Book Review with Ben From tantraPunk.com

In this episode I’m joined by Ben for a book review of Tantric Quest by Daniel Odier, and a discussion about the ethics west-meets-east cineamatic themes.

Below is a non verbal transcript of the podcast

i’m ben lawson aka tantra punk your

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hello dear beloveds welcome to tantra

punk podcast episode number . i am

being joined again by arun

of arun’s yoga and we’re having a

discussion and he’s providing his

perspective we’re kind of doing a

collective book review on my new

all-time favorite book which is tantric

quest

by daniel o’dear and you’ll hear all

about it

um basically it’s a good book

in which someone is searching for

tantric wisdom and he

comes all the way from all the way from

his country

and he is seeking with

his open heart in

the mountains of himalaya

he is hoping he will get

established in the transit discovery

which

[Music]

and she’s a kind of

evolving thing

[Music]

she’s like she’s helping

him grow his

mind and his

um his soul as such

a different level

and he is

finally he’s understanding that

he called something out of the in their

journey

and he’s going back

so this woman is

actually

using different techniques to

help him to evolve

like we could see in this

book she

is telling me the space

and the time has an importance

into evolution and the

unconditioning thing by throwing him

into the

streets of india with some lovers

and teaching him how to house sex

without ejaculation and

she is introducing him to bhairavi raga

and teaching him about

what is great yoga

and they are having some good time

together

oh yeah yeah so

the stuff they never told you about in

yoga class that’s right

yeah um

it’s it’s well i guess some people say

it’s secret it’s

forbidden it’s hidden it’s the occult

it’s like uh

but it’s the fun stuff and uh

but yeah i’ll give some commentary later

please continue

um so these are the things

and um yeah

i basically don’t do almost everything

which is i

could see in this

particular part a particular piece of

the

written story and the

tantrica is actually um

using palm binds

and normal belt so these two things

uh is not so common

in all kind of tradition

there are some temples where prasadas

is farm wine and non-veg which is

located in the southern part of india

and also northern part of india i mean

the

uh tradition there is

uh that is into

kashmir area for india and

northern state like um there is a

place called my own so this is basically

a state which is filled with a lot of

black magicians

i mean it

[Music]

because there is nothing called black

magic

it is it is like it’s just magic

that may not be contaminated by

the uh understanding of society so they

label

it as a black magic it is not uh black

magic it’s

just nice so this black magic term is

uh actually an introduction from

first it’s not from the best assets it

is the

introduction from the christian

mysteries

so whatever they were not able to

understand their level

just black magic so they called alien

proudly

also as a black magician and a great

satanist

but i will say if he

right in all the time

so that could be happen but missionaries

called him

us

and whatnot so many things so

there is we can see in the story there

is

palm bay and the non-veg is being

north consumed so these traditions

are existing in uh

two temples which is in northern part of

india and southern part of

india so the prasada

yeah it’s

jesus said and he said why is my blood

and this post is my

flesh similar way when the

goddess is being established in the one

temple

with the tantric sadhana

that deity has some rituals

so we offer something like flowers

or uh something like that so in

these two temples what they offer

the rhodesis also has menstrual cycle

when she eliminates blood it is

become a very big festival and

peoples use this blood as a present

it is actually telling that

the woman woman is ready for giving

birth

so she is like she is giving the birth

to the industry generation so

she is like a goddess so that is where

people should start to worship

a woman wow so that

happens in our song

[Music]

so these things i could see in this

particular story

and these are something uh i think the

other didn’t mean what might exploration

into this because

there is a limitation for uh

indian soil because people won’t trust

and

because these are very powerful this can

help you to

get established with eternity after

stage and

it will actually help you to

may not put much more exploration into

this

but but his ability to write

whatever he is writing this can actually

he could have got much more exploration

into these kind of

things he could have written it in much

better day today is what i feel

so these are the things which i got from

the

story so what you didn’t

tell me well um

you know what i think uh i’m is is it

possible for you to

relocate to where you’re outside of any

walls because it seems like there’s just

a lot of echo

and um it’s i hate to say that i can’t

i’m having a hard time

um hearing so what you’re saying so i

get only a percentage of it

and i’m pretty i’m pretty sure i’m

following along all right but uh

but before we continue i just want to

see if you’re

if you have enough power maybe you can

move

uh just like right now it is

better you’re are you you’re outside a

little bit let’s see

uh could speak a little bit more

now

that’s a little bit better yeah i think

okay cool so thank you that’s that’s

good we’ll keep going so

yeah so the reason that i wanted to uh

share that book with you

is that um you know

i’m kind of i’m kind of like uh

i feel like i’ve completed a certain

chapter of my life and i’m looking at

the future and uh

i’ve wanted to have the author be a

guest on this podcast

i sent him a couple emails i don’t know

if they the email is

is active or what i know he’s still

active he’s still teaching

and i started watching some of his

youtube channels and it’s very

interesting

and i feel like i also i also read

another one of his books about

kali so um you know he’s i think

me and him would make uh will be good

friends

you know and uh and i’m certainly just

about a generation behind him i suppose

or ahead of him however that works to

where

you know his literary depiction of his

experience

was very classical

uh for the traveling scholar

of spirituality and seeker to

have that experience of immersion and

culture shock

and and and even this very sought after

and very

very erotic dimension that uh it’s just

um

you know i consider that work when i

read that book i thought

i thought to myself like wow on one

level

i feel like i am the next generation of

seekers

of western male seekers who

who becomes enchanted and intoxicated by

the nectar of shakti

even though didn’t start out knowing

that that’s what they were looking for

but it sort of there was some some

conspiracy of cosmic forces to sort of

allow for that shakti force to

to meet the seeker who and then also to

put that seeker through

through extreme trial and tribulation to

test their

ability to absorb and and

and behold and and uh and caretake for

deeper knowledge and and not everybody

is

worthy of that training not everybody is

going to survive those initiations so

it’s very much like a boot camp or very

much even like a navy seals kind of

thing where there’s like a very

i mean when you see what he goes what

she puts him through

you know the as his teacher as a

initiatrix she puts him through

through uh tests of will and character

and strength and resolve that you would

you would put you would see in an army

ranger school or something like that so

i think it’s very appealing because a

lot of men in the west

they want to have that that rite of

passage

into manhood and they don’t really get

it from video games

and they’re kind of stuck in adolescence

and stuck in a state of immaturity

you know on a lot of levels and that and

this story is like kind of like what

what’s missing for the american

experience i mean or the or the european

um experience without that sort of

without the dimension of of goddess

worship without the dimension of

um you know immersion into wild nature

and

and deep sort of um you know what they

what we would people would more

more commonly refer to as like a a

vision quest

amongst the native americans or a

walkabout amongst the aborigines where

where you’re forced to go out there and

find yourself you know

with some instruction by a shaman or a

guru or a teacher

or an elder but that you’re also

partially on your own so you have to

sort things out

and and really encounter your own

your own issues i guess the the

initiation of christ

in the desert is like an analogy as well

but for so you know this is really

priceless

material and is very archetypal in my

opinion for

for this the journey of the you know the

average man and then

beyond that the journey of the spiritual

seeking man and beyond that

the journey of the spiritual seeking man

who is also

open to being not humiliated

or belittled by the divine feminine but

to be actually

initiated into godhood at a high level

on the physical plane and on the

spiritual plane

and in the uh in the in the active

invocation of kundalini and therefore

becoming

a worshipper and devotee of the

kundalini and that’s something that has

to be

you know you can’t you can only explain

that so much and and

for it to be practiced in union and

practiced through

a you know what they describe as some

form

of a my tuna ritual which is kind of

like the holy grail of the

the tantric seeker is to is to

experience that i mean it’s it’s

like um it’s yeah

after for me after studying tantra for

years

i encountered his work which i feel like

i probably should have

been given his that book right at the

beginning of my journey in fact i should

have been given that book

by my mother before my first girlfriend

when i was or something and she could

give me that book and say here son

i want you to be like this guy before

you ever

you know have a girlfriend and that and

i so now i feel like

you know i wasted a lot of years being

very ignorant and very lost

and then i find that book almost at

years old

and i went through a lot of wasted time

wasted years and a lot of bs

trying to sort out this stuff and i

basically had very similar

experiences that he had and some of them

were

less glorious some of them were more

glorious i mean

everybody’s path is different but when i

read that book i said to myself

you know maybe my story

of my tantra quest is is really probably

too

horrific and extreme in a lot of ways to

be

the to be really the the story that

sells

tantra on a big level uh the way that

like bruce lee was able to sell

kung fu and martial arts to the world

through through that cinema so

obviously when i’m reading this book

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tantric quest i’m thinking

this is an amazing screenplay and it

and it tells the story of the goddess

and of shakti and it really

helps under a man understand his

strengths and weaknesses and it’s a

story of personal transformation

it’s so archetypal and it’s so

accessible and relatable

that to me it feels like it’s

for a while

oh yeah you go ahead and

what it is like there is two people

one guy he came to one burger

okay he was sitting near to one road and

he was baby

so this guy has told to this beggar this

like

if you meditate minutes every day

you can convert the world this guy has

said to this brother

so the girl has replied if you do

the meditation for minutes you

will not you understood

say one more time if you do the

meditation and what now

if you do the meditation for minutes

every day then you will not you will not

go for conquering the world

minutes of meditation a day it will

will

helps you to achieve those those

uh those effects that that this

development that you’re

talking about it’s just a story this is

just a story

this guy came to the roadside was having

a lot of

eco and he said to this bugger because

he is

separating and seeing the bugger from

himself because

there is actually there is no duality it

is this non-dual self actually so this

guy has told to

this other person like if you meditate

for

minutes every day you can conquer the

world

it is right because the meditation will

give you

a sharp mindset so this guy has to reply

to this guy

in the way if you meditate minutes a

day

you will never go because you can

establish into this self so from this

blissfulness

you will never feel like conquering the

world even though you can

ah that’s cool man well that’s what they

that’s

uh that’s what my my uh cyber friend vin

armani says about what it means to be a

gentleman and what

what what is romantic about being a

gentleman is that you should be strong

and powerful but you should have the the

wisdom to

to be also gentle and that that is the

sort of that’s the attractiveness of

being a gentleman is that you have power

but you use it

not to harm but to heal if you know

unless it’s necessary for defense yeah

you know if you’re so that’s uh yeah i

mean

there’s i mean if you think about what

holly what hollywood does

hollywood is this machine that

uses this um this this

uh pattern this formula

a formula of a story that makes the

white

you know in his prime of age the the

white male

protagonist hero be the

centerpiece of the hollywood just not

the american dream it’s just like the

dream of

of being a human you know you’re

aspiring to that

and uh and i think that’s very toxic of

course because i’d rather see

an ensemble cast i’d rather see more

diversity

and whatnot um but i also look in the

mirror

i don’t look in the mirror every day

thankfully but when i do look in the

mirror i say

well you know you happen to you just

happen to be

you know a uh you know you fit into that

formula so when i

ask myself like well you know who

if if if nobody else like if i say to if

i put out a

a press release saying you know somebody

should really

make this book tantric quest into into a

hollywood film

because it ha because it has that

formula so we’re guaranteed that it will

work

on some level and it will it will reach

people

because that’s all they know that all

they know is tom cruise

and mel gibson and uh you know

all of these um all of these

these archetypes whether they’re really

musk muscle men or

or or they’re more like the pierce

brosnan kind of guy you know what i mean

like you can be pierce bros then you

don’t have to be you don’t have to be

muscle-bound

to be to be a hero i mean you could be

any anywhere along the spectrum

and uh and i think like as

well i know i know that people are

obsessed with this archetype and

and the fact that he wrote this book um

and i read that and i go wow you know

this is really

something that that could be made into

an amazing amazing film and even done

with

you know on location and and with

hopefully with him as a consultant and

him actually approving and working on

the screenplay

and um you know i’m on a point where i

think

you know if it’s uh

i’m just i don’t know if i should pray

for it to be

the case but i will say that i think it

i think that a movie of i think a film

of that of that story should be made

and ideally with daniel the author

as the you know a main consultant

obviously and someone who is going to

approve it and

possibly even have the final edit

editorial control

so that he’s very happy like i would

never want to see

that story be made into a film in a way

where he thought it was horrible or he

didn’t like it it’s like he should just

be able to be in love with every aspect

of it

and and that would be a reason to just

shoot more

scenes and take more takes and have it

take longer and have it be

more options but you know i feel like um

you know as much as i would love to see

everybody in the world fall in love with

the top

bollywood movie of the year so long as

that movie

told some story that was really honoring

to

to shakti you know i would i would be

the first one to say

don’t listen to this white guy european

guys journey about going into

seeking tantra like that’s you know why

listen to him you could have a more

authentic indigenous perspective on that

but honestly i know

that in my heart of hearts i know that

that’s not how the world

is set up right now and i don’t want to

be bowing to hollywood but i do think

well

you know if i if i look at my future and

i say

you know it’s at least worth considering

um

the possibility of uh of seeing

if a if it’s possible that that that he

would approve of that story being made

into a film

and then find out if maybe people want

to invest in a film project like that or

maybe it can be self-funded or

crowdsource funded or however it could

work

but i think for me i say to myself like

if i

ask the goddess that i

know and love you know at this point

you know does the world need to see my

story on film

or does it need to see daniel’s story on

film

and maybe it doesn’t need to see either

maybe it needs to see a rune story on

film

and i’m open to anything you know being

the case and i’m

willing to accept anything but i’ll tell

you as i was reading that book

it really struck me that it’s like this

is

the literary

depiction of the experience of contact

of psychedelic goddess worship and that

experience of contact with the

with the the sort of mother goddess of

the earth the dark mother goddess and

the kali

the way that kali is introduced through

bang you know that whole chapter of like

the hallucination that he has

of experiencing the devouring kali force

and it’s because he drank a big glass of

of

of cannabis milk you know that that was

really

that was beautiful for me because that’s

how because if

if people understand that that and

theogens and psychedelics and

psychedelic shamanism can be the the

bridge that takes you into union with

the divine feminine

then that is a big that’s a different

story

can i pursue like see here

here uh seeking the wisdom

um i mean the divinity

once you seek the divinity and once you

got established into the divinity

you will be become the code itself

so that is the thing so here the in this

book um

there is something is lacking like

he is seeing some goal of goal oriented

like

tangrick tantric thing is like uh it’s

an initiation there is

no no destination to reach

to see the life as it is

and making the life

to flow so basically

what what is this business so

uh there is something is lacking like

what is this

what is the nature of the uh nectar we

are

seeking so if we look at only

scriptures we can see the nature

of the uh

nectar or the immortality which we are

seeking

it has been said in this way like it is

neither

that nor this

and it is completed with

that complete so there is one stanza

from

vedas it is closing this way this is

perfect that is perfect

and perfect comes from the perfect

and if you take the perfect out of the

perfect

the reminder is perfect so this is what

we

are seeing this is this is where we will

get established

in groups if

someone knows this he

don’t have to seek this because he will

already be established into this

and if someone who don’t know this

he don’t know what to say this is also a

problem

so it will be like somebody who has

tested this

will never see this and somebody

who never tasted this don’t know what to

say

then he will be become blind so the

the seeking lies in between that is

where the true speaker is actually

into so tandra is ah

is

[Music]

so these things there is mind

intellect ego and self to understand

what is mind what is in the life what is

ego and what itself

somebody should understand

then you can understand these four is

not

what is this is saying is five sentences

which is psy hearing

smell and taste

so basically if you know if you become

uh this five indians this is what we

call the spike

india if you become the five india you

will

get to know uh this wisdom is not this

none of these five senses

like that you know it is goes on five

elements

uh pancha bayou seven uh

and five elimination methods so

basically the agory is in uh

kashi and they will actually

bring their own uh

and they will actually eat that

thing

because once you go through that

you will get detached from that so

he who wins all all these statistics

tatwa only

only has the capability to attain the

uh immortal that is what which tundra

offers

so that has no senses so

sex is one of the important

way which people will go through to

get this thing out

so basically

he who attracted to this i mean he who

knows this

will be possess some certain qualities

like healing people and he will be able

to

make the to be ally one sort of things

like that like

jesus has done we can see his bible

[Music]

people and there are a lot of

interactive happening all of those

so basically people understand this

thing people

uh bring this immortality uh

he become like um

like it’s near to god so

what i’m what what what you are

proposing is like

making this as a movie and if it is

being done in a very proper way

this will be become like a very good

gift

for humanity you know so people can see

this wisdom and they can understand

and they can give a visual experience of

what is happening and how it can be how

much powerful this could be and uh

wow well that is that that’s really you

know what why i wanted to have this

conversation with you because i know

when i was reading it i could imagine

that um anybody who was

indigenous tantric who understood

every who could understand everything

that was being spoken of which to me i i

had encountered

a lot of it uh in different ways through

different schools and teachings and

workshops and retreats and whatever but

obviously i would imagine that

that there would be just as as there’s

as

there’s like infinite different

competing stories of even the origin of

kali all over india so

you know it’s you’re always gonna have

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people who are gonna

who are gonna discredit or try to debate

the validity of one or another path or

school or whatnot but i feel like um

if somebody like you could read that

book and say

yeah it’s it’s a little corny because

it’s it’s just

it’s another another hollywood you know

white male protagonist

hero goes and and but really he gets

broke he gets broken down and the real

hero

is the devi the real hero is the the

shakti because

you know he’s he’s uh he’s very much

um uh his machismo doesn’t

doesn’t hold up you know it doesn’t it’s

not he really isn’t

isn’t a machismo character but it’s very

it’s very humbling and it’s very

beautiful in that way

and uh and i would say like that’s why

if i shared it with you and you said

yeah you know i mean if you if you

didn’t hate it

i would say that’s a green light to to

consider this if you think it’s actually

i mean if you agree and you would sort

of validate it as being it’s it’s not

the complete story it’s not the whole

picture

it’s not everything you need to know but

it’s a good introduction and it could

definitely

open the door for more people who never

knew this was possible

and never you know never um

i mean this could stop people from

having lifetimes of drug and alcohol

abuse or

failed relationships i mean i i think

this really could this really could

i mean as popular as as martial arts and

yoga it’s like hey if you’re going to do

yoga you should also read this book so

you know what else is out there

you know at least a little bit and maybe

you go there and you

you go into the mountains and you died

like one of the yogi’s that she talked

about you know of like just

seeing all these dead yogis out there in

the caves they just they just

you know drag them out after they’ve

been in there for a while and they start

to stink

that could be you you know and you could

you could find non-duality and transcend

your ego by just dying in a cave by

yourself but

good luck you might get lucky and you

might find a beautiful shakti like that

and you know

i i think um to me that that that really

ignited the the the pubescent dream that

i had it’s so romantic

and so much better than anything in porn

you know it’s so much better than

anything on a dating app i mean it’s so

magical and mystical

and there’s so much reverence like if

you want teach

men like how do you teach men to respect

women that’s a big question and there’s

lots of people trying to answer that

question

and i think that that book you know a

lot of people

a woman yeah

yeah and so you know we’ll we’ll see

what happens i mean this is just uh

for now um you know i would say you know

for now

in my for me to be involved in the

tantra movement you know which goes back

hundreds

thousands of years you know in your

words it’s two thousand year

family lineage so you know if i’m just

one little thread in that tapestry of

the fabric of tantra throughout history

on earth and uh you know i’ve had my

little story and you know honestly

i have my book like my book is is being

edited

professionally right now and it’s under

contract with the publishing company

and it’s supposed to be released in

november and we’ll see if we

hit that target but it’s been pushed

back already once i don’t know if you

know it’s gonna make it on time for that

but i’m hoping it does

but if it does you know then um i’m

gonna feel like you know hey i told my

story i’m kind of complete you know

i have my own i mean i can write another

volume i have

since that since that book was was

written

um you know basically i wrote the whole

manuscript

uh for the most part there was a little

bit added to it a small percentage was

added to it but for the majority of that

manuscript of my first book it was done

uh in the summer of

and so that was six years ago that i

wrote that book and it’s taken until

this year

the end of this year for that to be you

know

submitted and and signed up for a

contract and then

it’s in the editing process now and

eventually it’ll be released

but that basically tells my story up

unto the point of because we added

a couple of chapters you know

um to catch up a little bit but from

 to to now

it’s like a whole nother book you know

that they want me to write they’re like

we want to get this

book out so that you can already have

the confidence to start writing the next

one

so you know i have plenty of work cut

out for me but when i think about like

um

what i would really have fun doing and

what i really like to do

what i felt called to do when i read

that book is like you know

hey if somebody else wants to do it like

hey you know he’s he’s from

i mean i’m not going to try to do his

accent i’m going to

because i’m terrible with accents but

you know

if i threaten to to do it with his

permission and someone else says no no

you’re not the right one we’re going to

find somebody else i would just be happy

to know that this that that project was

done you know

and and i would say if no one else is

going to do it

i might just dedicate my life to doing

it because i think that his story is

way way way more powerful in terms of

being relatable to people than my story

which is

far out you know it’s very very far out

and like

people might enjoy it but they aren’t

going to relate to it and my story is

not going to be the story that you give

your year old son

you know before his first girlfriend but

that story is one that could so i think

about the

you know not to be cynical but i could

say the marketability of it

um i don’t i’m not thinking about the

you know being a best it’s you know

well obviously the cool thing too is

that if you made if you made a film of

that book

and it was it was said this movie is

based on the story of

daniel order and his book tantra quest

then you’re also giving that book

that’s why i wanted to ask you about it

because it’s like if i

if i embark on this journey

of really putting all of my heart

behind more behind his story than behind

my story and i put my story

you know i bury my story and let people

find it if they want it but i’m not

going to like

shove it in people’s faces because it’s

too extreme but his story

is perfect for

every young man on earth to read

you know not to be forced to read but to

be invited to read

and it’s really like um you know i i

think that’s

that was my that was my feeling about it

so you know if it’s if you were to say

to me

yeah you know what i mean there’s things

you would change about it there’s things

you might correct about it and who knows

maybe if you were advising on a

screenplay you would actually be able to

like

correct some things technically that

that maybe were were misinterpreted by

him or that you know he might be willing

to

to to be educated further about and

whatnot but like

to for it to be that’s really difficult

because you could try to do a culturally

sensitive movie

and have it backfire on you and have

people really hate it

i think i’m sure there are people now

like if you gave that book to an

orthodox brahmana hindu at a temple

where they don’t let women

inside the temple and you gave him that

book he probably would

would want to beat you with a stick

right i mean it’s not like everybody in

india is going to be

happy to hear that kind of story anyway

right

yeah it’s a kind of cow taboo right yeah

so what do you think would happen yeah

what do you think would happen if

if whether it’s whether it’s me or

somebody else but

you know like a very well produced

doesn’t have to be

you know multi-million dollar budget it

could be a very small humble

independent film but well done an

award-winning independent film done

of that story and then that makes that

book have a whole new audience and more

people get interested in that book

do you think that would be good for the

heart and soul of mother india

that’s the question

it’s hard to say because india is a

multicultural country

so it’s like and we are dealing with two

different

even though all these pizzas came out

from india still

uh respect most of the

people’s mind in india and

the there are moments

[Music]

a white woman so there are things are

happening even though the family

after the marriage they get suffered

i mean allow the new state over here for

a long time and some

some of them are actually very very

successful

and there are a lot of it is generally

for

society it is like

so yeah if you could make an attempt

like this

this is definitely going to be like the

game

like yeah yeah oh yeah james bond yeah

and then after this also it is going to

be like

um it will not be same as what you see

what you feel it will not be us

what you feel in your country and it

will not be as simple as what

we can see in our own country

[Music]

orthodox peoples don’t even

accept

sex which is being printed on the walls

of the temple as big

because it has been two generations

after the

um uh

christian missionaries has been abused

in india

it has been already two to three

generations they have

abused they have used entire world

they put the sin on people’s mind

and they put what is right what is wrong

this kind of consciousness into

different people

and in muslim countries if you see they

are seeing woman as just

a farmhouse where you can put your seed

into one

so if you do an atom like this it is

definitely going to be

a game changer i mean if some big

production companies

are being involved into this this is

going to be definitely it is going to be

a blockbuster

i mean there’s so much money it will be

even though the topic wow

right that’s so that’s that’s an

interesting thing so you know i mean you

think about like um

there’s been very controversial

political films made

all over the world like for example the

killing fields about

uh the commerce rouge in cambodia

there’s movies about you know like

there’s there’s political movies that

show the the treachery

of the state and uh and you have to if

you’re gonna

go and make a film you have to go to

like their version of what we call the

state department in the united states

and you have to see like

hey am i going to get kidnapped if i try

to make this film am i going to get

killed

am i going to get permits what are they

going to charge for the permit so

somebody

in the government has to basically

you know approve to but if they if they

want the money enough i mean if they say

yeah well we don’t

we’re not going to endorse this but

we’ll take the money and maybe we’ll

charge you more because we’re afraid of

the backlash

you know i mean it’s i know that there’s

people that’s all they do all day long

is like deal with that kind of diplomacy

like cinema cinema

diplomacy it’s a whole it’s a whole

sector

you know that hollywood just has to deal

with so you know i would be very

interested to see because it may maybe

it doesn’t happen in india maybe it

happens in sri lanka or maybe it happens

somewhere else where they

where they want they say wow you know i

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mean it’s we can make it look like that

but if they don’t want to do it there

maybe it can happen in kashmir right i

mean it depends on the prerogative of

the people

but i think like uh it will be it is

definitely going to be it is you are

going to take a lot of things

do what

but it’s so beautiful man i mean a story

a thing about it’s like i could tell

i could tell i mean you could be very

militant about

about kali versus a la you know you

could be very militant about that

that message but it’s not it’s not as

um as as uh you know

um diplomatic like to me the diplomacy

of kali

is through the little boy in the story

who was

remember the boy who was like uh the guy

he was like the guardian of the wisdom

of the goddess and he

he was like i would love to hear what

you think about the

the that is like an ingenious plot

device

in terms of storytelling and i almost

think he made the story up because it’s

so

perfect but that’s also the sort of

nudge and the wink of the goddess

and if you haven’t read the book i don’t

want to spoil it but i will say that

there is this

boy in the book who is simultaneously

the the sort of um uh

usher or the sort of uh

um he’s the guardian and the gatekeeper

of the seeker of this wild yogini

devi like this wild basically the the

tantra quest is the story of a european

man

seeking buddhist enlightenment and then

being sort of disenchanted by that

journey and then discovering a far more

enchanting experience

of a humble wild yogini

named devi out in the wilds of the

himalayas

and in order for him to discover her

he has to be not only initiated brutally

by her

when he eventually gets you know her

blessing to be initiated

but he is he’s he’s um

the gatekeeper of knowing her is

actually this very

wise old soul of a boy who

the the mo to me the most charming thing

was was how the book

comes full circle and

that was

it even makes me emotional now but that

that brought the tear to my eye

that’s that’s so well done

and i it was very well done but i don’t

want to give it away

but the

i guess you could say the

the what makes it so much more beautiful

than just like a romantic encounter is

the fact that

the the context for this encounter to

happen

was was a whole theater of forces

where a village was sort of set up and i

think

you know everybody

kind of secretly knows that

all the events in their life are

engineered

to push you towards growth and

evolution and like it’s those moments

when you realize that your enemies were

the ones who

who helped you grow the most and you

want to thank them

or you realize it was like the person

who betrayed you

who really you know created a pivot

point in your life that opened up for

new things and it’s just

that that that beautiful like um

sort of reveal that reveal moment that a

lot of

epic stories really really touch on is

it like

yeah you were you were deceived but for

your benefit not for your peril

and and how that deception plays out to

where

you feel really

like like validated and really exalted

that was done so well in this book by

the very end

and and i hope i’m being vague enough

not to spoil it but i would say that

like

i feel like even the i mean what i i

think about like what if you gave this

book to

to to anybody who was a militant jihadi

right

what would they maybe this would be the

key to open their heart i don’t know of

anything

else you know i mean maybe ayahuasca

maybe that they go and have an ios

experience but the idea of

of

how long yeah the idea of there being an

experience that would help

the coldest heart towards the divine

feminine to open up

you know and know also a lot of people

join

militant religious extremist

organizations

because they’re bored and they don’t

feel like their warrior energy

is being is being um uh put to use

so the idea that you get this

this very exciting story of initiation

with this you know this this yogini um

and she puts you through that military

boot camp experience

and she puts you on a mission to be a

defender and of the goddess and the

builder of goddess temples and that

should exhaust you by the end of every

day so you don’t want to go out

and hurt anybody and and go out and

colonize anybody like you should be so

preoccupied

with your love affair with the with

nature and the goddess and building

goddess temples

that you uh that you’re too busy and too

exhausted to go out and fight wars

and conquer and colonize other people

and impose anything on other people

would you agree that like tantra is

ultimately a a peace work

a path of peace work because of that

that relationship with the the divine

feminine but also the warrior goddess

that will

adjudicate when necessary i mean i’m

curious what you think about like the

political

implications of a tantric revolution now

with this as being like a text you know

a powerful text

to get the warriors uh to sort of change

their um

affiliation

the area which we’re living is like

capitalistic

this is a capitalistic society where

everything is being getted marketed

like woman is getting marketed as a

commodity

in this present situation and

they also started to think that they

have to act

in a way that mainly citing in order to

be becoming equal

you know so even though they are equal

they are not

uh kind of

subjective illness in their own

heart because if they act like men

but the tundra is a

woman is seen as a woman

and she is seen as a mother

and worship as a goddess and this may

not be

welcoming for much of the people where

the

it may not be welcoming for them because

the

for them woman is not a goddess and this

is the day

for them the male only is born

in such a way the woman woman also

getting more pressure out of the love

so that is why the camera is very sense

is being introduced in

so using this we could

actually love the woman

which is actually able to

[Music]

take different dimensions all together

put some more masala structure

something much bigger than people do

[Music]

it could be it could be a

better idea to make a movie out of this

just quickly from this particular book

in a much

better way the way it is

cool all right you know who knows we’ll

see what happens and if nothing else um

even if it’s not his exact story maybe

it’s something

something similar or something that can

be derived from or based on

that uh that story but uh but no

i i appreciate that you gave that

commentary

and i hope that if nothing else people

who hear this they go and they

they read that book and and hopefully

we’ll

we’ll get more um more feedback on that

and uh

you know knowing that that book is out

there i’m certainly interested in

finding more

literature i mean if you could if you

were to find

a you know a book

that tells us tells that story of a

transformation

of the of a male you know in in in

seeking of the goddess you know maybe

there’s

better stories even that you are aware

of or that you could find

that uh that are totally

totally indigenous and totally uh uh

traditional and authentic and whatnot so

um yeah just one one

one little um tactic at a time you know

and

in this journey but uh but yeah so

you want to tell people where to go for

your do you want to give a pitch

for your your services right now

and then we’ll say goodbye

well never hurts to do it again because

maybe they heard

this one and not the one before you know

um you provide so basically

i i help people to

get into their low potential by

seeing their ethic chart and

helping them to uncondition themselves

from

the conditions they got from you

so say if they grow up or places they’ve

grown

philosophy

[Music]

so you’re a vedic astrologer for hire in

india with the year tantric

lineage tradition and that you’re

is your main teacher as a year old

woman right

did you tell me one time that you were

one of your teachers or your main

teacher is like a year old woman

yes yes so

she’s the boss honestly

it is like it is not like nothing to do

with the

uh western aspect of new york

time person this is basically pure

indigenous thunder well

pure indigenous tantra that sounds

lovely and uh

maybe look at all the new books which is

being came out and

the ideas which people are carrying

about

yeah so if you’re sick of if you feel

like something’s missing and you’re sick

of

neo-westernized capitalized tantra seek

the pure indigenous tantra that arun’s

yoga.in

can help you access uh for a very

reasonable

uh fee and and and your journey can

begin

and uh certainly my journey has begun

and i’m a i’m a believer

and uh and i’m i was much rather be

hanging out

uh talking to you then going to some

fancy uh like mega

church of an ashram where everybody’s

you know in a cult

of um of of of

capitalism really so you know this is uh

nothing wrong with earning a living you

know being a teacher for sure there’s

nothing

wrong with um with having an enterprise

but certainly you know we’re trying to

keep it balanced

and uh and keep it um you know

in in accordance with uh with the with

the deeper teachings so

i i yeah that’s why we’re having this

conversation is that so you can

you know you’re no i’m i’m not saying

this

neo commercialized the tantra is

completely wrong because everything

needs a particular aspect to survive

otherwise it will collapse right maybe

this is what

if this is what keeps it alive then so

be it for now and we’ll keep

we’ll we’ll yeah we’ll do what we can to

give back and

and that’s it you know we always give

back so

um cool all right well well thank you so

much again

yeah yeah so the indigenous knowledge

can be

polished can be used with a much

modernized way and

uh strange is possible always yeah

yeah yeah let’s get let’s let’s let’s

make it happen and we’re making it

happen so awesome all right everyone

well thank you so much

again this was another adventure and i

appreciate you

you bearing with me you know this is the

first time i’ve been able to share some

of those

those those impassioned um sort of uh

hot hot uh heartfelt arguments and and

whatnot and so i’m glad that you were

able to

help me work through that and hopefully

um all of that

you you get you get well rewarded for

your uh

you’re pairing with me on that and uh

and good things continue to happen for

us both so

i will uh yeah we’ll say goodbye for now

and look forward to

our ongoing collaborations and wish you

the best

uh of um of luck in all your endeavors

thank you for listening to the tantra

punk podcast

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[Music]

namaste

[Music]

you

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