The Esoterism of Tantric enlightenment in world religions (Vedic reading series episode number – 5)


In this particular podcast we are having a guest his name is Dr. Thomas Clough Daffern

Dr. Thomas  is a philosopher, historian, poet, author, lecturer, musician, thinker, educator, consultant and peace studies specialist. His academic background includes degrees in European and world history (with political philosophy) and a long period of intense personal study of philosophy, religion and the history of ideas 

One of his important works is a periodic table of religions.

In this particular podcast we are speaking about periodic table of religions mantra in Tantric sadhanas. 

Role of covid pandemic in enlightenment 

Role of tantra and erotic sexuality in different religion which includes Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, other religions  and tribal practices. Also materialistic ideology, communism

World intellectual forum Ramanuja trust, Swami chathurvedi

His birth chart analysis and a video of mine, which talks about the five years of covid pandemic. Is here

Let’s begin our Vedic reading series episode number – 5 (The Esoterism of Tantric enlightenment in world religions) 

You could connect to doctor in at this website

Below is a non verbal transcript of the podcast

yeah hi hi doctor

um i am so glad that you came to

uh my podcast and you accepted my


uh basically

i i’m really interested to know about


finding of that periodic tables of


and your views about that and

a short history of you um

can you just talk about those things

sure okay nice to meet you aaron it’s

great to

to see you there in bangalore it’s a

city i know in love well

i’ve been there several times um

so i’ll introduce myself i’ll explain

about the periodic table

when i get to it okay in my talk

because it’s quite important um and i’m

going to do a sort of overview of how

how i got interested in tantra what it

means to me

more generally in philosophy of religion


so i started out i was brought up in


and then britain england and i studied

philosophy at university and things like

this i got very interested in in my late

teens in buddhism and got very

interested in buddhist tantra

i was influenced by vajrayana buddhism

particular teachers and lineages um

connected with in britain the biggest

buddhist monastery here was founded by

chogyam trungpa

who was a great buddhist tantric


who taught the shambhala wisdom of tibet

which inspired me i then went to canada

i studied

all world religions for many years as a


and i got very interested in the for me

the core question

at the heart of philosophy is what is

enlightenment how can we reach


you can call it nirvana moksha

theosis it has different words in

different languages right

so i’ve also studied philosophy of


i think we have to analyze the words we


in tantra they have a realization that

the mantra

sound of the word carries an energy


if you can say the right words in the

right sequence you know

it’s a thing of great importance now all

religions say that

jewish uh thinkers call that the


sufi thinkers call that the sufi

permutation of letters they have a name

in arabic

in the runic traditions of north sages

in england

and norway they do the same with their


which were taught them by odin the god

of wisdom

so anyway i discovered all this as a

scholar that there’s one universal

tradition it has different names in

different languages

we can call it tantra we can call it

other things you know in a sense

the chinese are right the tao cannot be


it’s the taoist knowledge as well

anyway this got me very interested in in

mystical experience because tantra is a

direct path to mystical enlightenment

i took a vow as a body sat for this

lifetime to reach enlightenment

when i was from a tibetan armor and

i’m still sticking to that i’m going to

reach full enlightenment

this life and not just for me but for

the benefit of all sentient beings

this is not just an ego thing it’s for

everybody that’s you

or your friends my friends the whole


seven billion of us i think it’s


i think it’s possible because of new

technology because of uh

people are much better educated now in a

strange way the coronavirus makes us all

stay home and study you know we have

great opportunities to reach


see through the maya dance

anyway so i think one of the things

that’s important is relationships

different times in my life i’ve been

stellar but deliberately as a student

you know

sometimes i’ve had a consort i think you

can learn a lot as a couple

if you’re fortunate to have a consort in

your life

sexuality and emotional love

are a direct link to to the god


and not just in tantra but in all world


you know eros is a very powerful thing

but i think it’s got to be channeled


uh ethically no violence involved

um mutual consent in all this stuff now

i call that a wisdom affair

i’ve written a book called wisdom

affairs i think we should have wisdom

affairs instead of love affairs

so i’ve re recoined rebranded the idea

of the love affair which is chaotic and

leads to jealousy and all that stuff

i say let’s have wisdom affairs and i’ve

written a book about examples

so um okay so then

i came to the position that i call it


meta mahayana position so the great


mahayana buddhism but actually it exists

in every different lineage

it’s in hinduism it’s in jainism it’s in


it’s in christianity the great vehicle

if you look at this planet from

let’s say the center of the galaxy which

is a lot of light years away and you

look at this tiny little speck

through a tiny sort of telescope let’s

say you’re in the grand galactic

council of gods in the center of the

galaxy and you’re saying why isn’t

planet earth enlightened yet why are

they so slow

i don’t think he’s going to say the gods

are going to say well they’re not all

hindu they’re not all muslim yet they’re

not all christian

you’re gonna say well speed it up speed

it up get the meta mahayana teachers


you know and they’re teaching universal


that’s where i’m coming from i’ve taken

initiation in many different religions

i’ve taken initiation in christianity

i love christ he’s a great teacher very

great shame what happened to him you


like when when teachers get attacked by

the mob

and crucified and this happens all the

time great teachers

osho seems to have been poisoned killed

you know great teachers get killed off

it’s terrible

anyway i like christ um and

i discovered in christianity a sort of

tantric tradition

in the rosicrucian alchemical esoteric


gnostic church there’s a tantric

tradition kept alive

and that’s really sacred i’m working

with the mary magdalene

lineage in france mary magdalene was the

consort of christ probably

it’s been airbrushed out of the bible

you know nobody talks about it she’s

called the saint but

she was born the same she was his

consort his tantric consort

so i’ve set up the mary magdalene

studies association

and there are people in france working

with that

i think that in paganism generally


is is is more understandable in the

ancient muslim traditions you call it

hinduism in india but

in the western world we call it druidry

for instance the celtic tribes

had a philosophy just like the hindu we

had a pantheon of gods and goddesses

we understood what is wisdom in nature

we worked with the elements earth air

fire water

with astrology with the stars

with um you know magical

practices and so on exactly like in


and this existed in ancient europe a

thousand bc

these people were called the druids and

they built stonehenge avery and these

other great megalithic sites

using sacred architecture like hindus

temples are built with um sacred

architecture so we use the same

and also in the norse traditions uh odin

and the runes

they’re the same ancient wisdom and frey

was the god of uh or in was the god of


you know these people knew about

obviously sexual energies are very


and so teachings are passed down orally

on how to

how to respect and honor and work with

erotic energy in

in couples and so on um

one of the people that’s influenced me a

couple nick douglas and penny slinger

wrote books about tantra they’re they’re


amazing sadly he’s dead now

nick douglas died he wrote about the

black hat traditions of

buddhism and they studied um

tantric teachings you know he wrote some

great books

um also i’ve taken initiation into islam

and sufism

and i regard myself as a sufi i’m just

finishing a commentary on the quran

i’ve traveled in islamic countries and i

love islam i love muhammad he’s a very

wise amazing teacher

and i’ve gone through the quran with

great detail

i’ve i’ve received sufi teachings from

direct you know lineage going back to


and these people also know about tantra

i mean muhammad was a master

um he said we shouldn’t be celibate we

should celebrate eros

but do it wisely and in the quran there

are teachings about you know what is


um marriage and and the quran and islam


uh eros they love the beauty of of eros


you have to do it wisely never

um you know emotional um trouble

uh because it needs to chaos and

muhammad himself had some trouble with

his own wives i’ve just done a

commentary on on the quran

and there was one point when he had

trouble with his own wives it’s really

quite humorous actually so

although he was a great master he wasn’t


it’s very difficult being in

relationships um

sometimes but in the ishmaeli tradition

there were lots of

um wisdom about the um tantric

origins a lot of buddhist influence came

in they believe in reincarnation as well

in the sufi traditions okay so that’s

that’s that then um i’ve been invited to

india about times i’ve given

talks there i know quite a few indian

teachers gurus spiritual elders

i’ve traveled all over um and most


i was invited by a swami who

has a base in bangalore and hyderabad

and chennai

he’s a hindu sage called swami


uh he’s in the lineage of ramanuja

he runs the ramanuja trust and that’s

interesting to me because as you know


the great advaita pedantic teacher spoke


the divine unity we have to wake up out

of maya and reach brahma

and become enlightened ramanuja

invented a criticism of that called

devayta pedanta

he says that’s true but also we should

embrace duality

because yes everything is god

but but for now i’m thomas

you’re aaron this is a computer we’re


into diversity and we should accept that

and celebrate that and work with it

and enlightenment is knowing that we’re

all god and yet enjoying the duality

so that’s dual uh vedanta

and my my friend swami chatham teaches

in great detail

the teachings of ramanuja and he and i

and other colleagues we’ve set up a

thing called the world’s

intellectual forum we believe that ideas


intellectual work are so precious we’ve

both studied and all the other people

involved as russians americans

involved you know if you study for

years the world’s spiritual

literature you come to realize they’re

all the same

and you can talk to people of all

religions with

peace you know but why are all the

followers fighting why are there armies

fighting in

wherever all around the world like in

kashmir at the moment the chinese

and the hindus having to have battles

the indian army and stuff

so we want to stop all that we’re a

peace movement

um the world intellectual forum saying

let’s have

conversations instead of battles let’s


aggression to a much more intellectual

and intelligent work

and there’s some very great thinkers on

that platform

i’m the european coordinator fred we

have a world

chairman who lives in hyderabad who um

and you know i’m i mean obviously

they’re not all

tantrics i mean but i i think swami


knows everything there is about tantra

he’s a very wise man

and um many of his disciples and so on

uh some of them are in bangalore even

okay so the other thing to say is when i

worked i worked in academia i’m also an


right and to me plato was a great master

as well plato founded academia

in greece he was taught by diotoma

through socrates

he founded the academy dedicated to the

nine muses who were the nine goddesses

of wisdom and he taught

philosophy which is the love of wisdom

now that’s i also am an academic and i


taught and studied at the university of

london and then the university of oxford

now i run the global green university

from france

it’s a global international university

but i teach i’ve taught in london for

many years and

i run an institute dealing with peace


because as an academic i think our duty

as scholars philosophers tantrics

mystics is to bring peace on this planet

we can’t get enlightenment until we get


some deluded people think we can reach

enlightenment if we have war

if we have a nuclear war it will be

great you know idiots around trump these

mad people think let’s have a nuclear


no this will be disastrous the planet

will be destroyed and

we will fail the exam we’re going

through a planetary exam at the moment

that’s how i see it

and our duty is to stop the nuclear war


disarm the militaries of the planet and

convert them to peace lovers

there’s not a single quarrel that can’t

be solved through meditation

and mediation these are the two m’s that

we need

so um i’m sworn to you know um

using academic work intellectual work


to convert the military of the planet

because they’re using all the money

that’s why everybody’s poor the military

including military intelligence that are

all spying on everybody

they’re they’re all creaming off all the

money this is wrong it has to stop

i don’t want anybody to go hungry today

or to not have a home

to sleep in you know the military got

all the money including the pentagon so

that’s what our world intellectual forum

and my peace institute

um we’re struggling to release the

energy of love

that’s locked up in fear in this


okay so and for our friends in china

the taoist confucian tradition i greatly


they have their own tantra taoism is

among the most profound philosophies on

the planet lao tzu

was a genius a master in dialectical


which the chinese marxists follow

there is a secret teaching about tantra

if you look at matter like if you look

at you know

detail matter using dialectical


you ultimately can find um

spirit that’s what gives dialectical


its name and um

so i think that we can have

conversations with uh

chinese philosophers and marxists

about peace and about tantra and about

dialectical materialism i think it’s

very important likewise in japan with

shintoists i’ve met shinto

intellectuals the japanese are

unbelievably wise people i love them

again they have this deep deep wisdom

and they love you know they have in

shintoism an equivalent of tantra

they have a deep understanding of

sexology and beauty and love and eros

um and the gods so most recently i also

published a book um okay so

i published a book um on the periodic

table of the world’s religions

because i’ve also worked as a teacher in


for years in the uk with bright kids

trying to explain to them about

religions now most

most clever kids in britain nowadays

they’re very skeptical about religion

they say oh it’s just faith i don’t

believe in god so i

i believe in science so i i

listened to them and i said okay well

i’ve spent years studying all the

world’s religions you know i’m a

scientist too but i’m a scientist of


so i said okay i’m going to put this

into a table

and i worked with a group of very bright

students and we created a periodic table

like mendeleps table of the elements and

in boxes

it explains all the world’s religions in


so you’ve got all the pagan religions

all the buddhists the hindu the jewish


and each one is broken down into

categories so for hinduism you have

about you know eight categories

islam the same and so on and it’s then

it’s got details so if you click on the

website it tells you exactly how many

followers it’s got

um what its sacred texts are and what it

believes about virtues and things

and values so that’s a that’s a

scientific work

to try and allow the people of the world

to see

how complex and amazing they are

most of us don’t realize we’re stuck in

our own culture we’re born a christian

or a buddhist or a hindu or whatever

and we think that’s all there is now

because we have the internet we’re

beginning to realize that’s not true

and i’ve traveled in about countries

around the world you know i

i’ve traveled and met people all over

the world i know

how incredible this planet is i’ve seen


and how profound the religious teachings

of mankind are

so we should all learn about them all

that’s my position as an

educator and we should celebrate them


and we should look for the common core

which i think is what

hindus called tantras what buddhist

called tantras the

inner web of understanding the weaving

of energies that makes everything


so more recently i’ve written a book

called um magical peacemaking

a handbook for practitioners and

theoreticians because

as a druid i’m very interested in magic

you know as a tantric i think magic is


is about creativity and

nobody yet has ever written a book on

peace magic

there’s lots of books on magic of love

magic of astrology magic of numbers

magic of

even books on magic and war you know

warriors like magic

nobody’s written a book on peace magic

so i’ve done it

you know i i published it earlier this


i’m very interested in how we can make

peace using our magical skills including


what you’re doing is very important and


so i’ve also proposed that we should

write a book or somebody you know i

would like to work with someone that

knows astrology

a book on the astrology of peace

nobody’s ever written it

it’s not been done this would cover

things like great peace treaties when

they were signed

how wars ended and it would it would

look at

what is a propitious time to end the


in the family and the home and the

marriage but also

you know internationally like when will

china and india sign a proper peace


it’s long overdue well let’s find out

look in the stars you know

um and the most recent thing i’m doing

because i’m very interested in science

and the history of science i’ve taught

history medicine

at oxford and i’m working on a book on

religion and mathematics

i think mathematics is very interesting

um you can’t do astrology without maths

you can’t

do astronomy but i think there’s a

sacred mass that’s been neglected

and there’s a religious mathematics that

we have to explore and discover

and so i’m writing the first ever book

on religious mathematics

founding a new discipline which i’m

working on at the moment it’ll be

published in a couple of months i hope

i’ll send you a free copy as a present

and uh for instance there’s a chat

chapter on hinduism and maths one on

buddhism and so on

so that’s a little glimpse of what i’m

up to and

um you know feel free ask any questions

or comments you want

um one question

how do you see life

well it’s a puzzle a mystery an


um life is the physical

atoms and forms that make organic life

possible so i look at it scientifically

i’d i’ve written a book about what are

eggs what’s the egg it’s called the book

of the egg you know

eggs are uh how we got here

our mother’s egg was fertilized by our


so there’s a biological answer to that

question what is life

but i think there’s also a metaphysical

answer because i think it’s the soul

of the spirit that comes into the egg in

the womb

that is your that is your consciousness

it grows into you

aaron your thinking as i’m speaking you


an awareness so i think it’s your

spiritual identity which

which coexists in your physical material


and your soul i think um has many

incarnations i believe in reincarnation

i think empirically that’s the most


i’ve studied the question of near-death


and past life regressions and so on it

seems to me

logical that the soul is is

nurtured over many lifetimes and i think

we’re on a journey all of us

um through various life experiences to

learn ethics

we all know when it’s we’re bullied at

school or when somebody says something

horrible or steals some of our stuff

it feels bad so we learn

that well i’m not going to do that to

other people because i don’t like it

so we gradually learn to be good

righteous and ethical people

we learn you know the skills that

yuristhira shows

um by becoming ethical he made one

mistake he gambled away his wife

you know terrible catastrophe so we

shouldn’t do that

you know we have to not get drunk and

gamble our wives away

and hopefully in his next life he won’t

make the same mistake you know

so i think life is for learning it’s a

school for souls

um as keats the poet said so

for instance if one flower is given to


you will see what

you can learn from that particular

flower is that

what you mean well yes um

i’ll also appreciate its beauty


i’m not going to cut it up and analyze

it i’ll i’ll look at it

and uh enjoy it i think life is to be


scent of the flower the pleasure of you

know life is about beauty as well

and in my book on religious mathematics


uh you know sarasvati the deity of


works to create creation with brahma to

create a world

of beauty but she sees it with


so that we have to use our minds to work

it out

so we we can understand but also by

loving you can also understand there’s a

different kind of intuitive immediacy

about loving

so so

for instance um for me uh for like

if a flower is brought to me i’ll

try to see how the what is that flower

is meant to me

like how long i can see this particular


whether uh will i

pass away the first question will come

to me

uh this flower will disappear when i die

what is gonna happen so

what is this particular flower meant to

me uh the molecules aren’t all secondary


whatever the whatever happening with the

uh flower is like you know

whatever it is it doesn’t make any sense

to me

maybe it is a lot of molecules came


and made that and some atom some color

some present and something something


some reflection of the light or whatever


it’s all these things doesn’t make any

sense to me because

it doesn’t matter for me

i mean this is how i start to think

about this particular flower

when it comes to me

so learning happens there because i

study about what because

that resonance resonate what is that


in that particular flower to me there is

learning of course happens

but that learning also doesn’t make any

sense to me because

it doesn’t matter

do you agree i

well look so i what i don’t understand

about what you’ve said

you’ve said twice it doesn’t matter


and so what do you mean by that it

doesn’t matter

what’s the hint what’s the phrase in

your language for that what’s your

native tongue by the way

i got birth in kerala i’m in malayalam

right uh from the past six seven

seven to eight years i’m speaking

english i mean

i work with the engineering i write


this is i write using english okay so

what is

it doesn’t matter in malayalam how do

you say that



okay okay that doesn’t i mean doesn’t

matter means

will it actually matter to me for

instance how do

i i go into my house i see it’s a space

which is filled with a body which is

called my mother

filled filled with a body which is

called my father this is again

a kind of identification which is being

given to me by

society basically my mother is not my

mother it’s

just an another being my father is not

my father i mean there is no mother no

father it’s just an another being

so does it matter to me i mean at the


this is not it’s not would you apply

that same it

doesn’t matter all to everything like

let’s say you go to look at the ocean

that doesn’t matter you look at the sun

that doesn’t matter is there anything

is there anything that does matter in

your philosophy

what matters i don’t know this is how i

like to this is this is the process

which is happening inside me

so you’re working through the what what

doesn’t matter

hoping to find something though


seeking well that’s good that’s good so

then you should be looking for god you

know you should be looking for ultimate


for that which gives meaning and and

substance to everything

you know the higgs boson particle in

physics they call it the god particle

yeah because it gives weight gives

matter to everything the higgs boson


so you’re looking for the equivalent


um to find what what you know gives real

weight and substance and meaning to the


and keep looking you know


um i’m just wondering this pattern of

thought is is normal right

i think one goes through a stage in

one’s youth i went through a stage when

i was younger nothing mattered

you know i was a bit of an atheist every

gods were stupid

religion was ridiculous people that

believed in gods were just trial

you know i went through an arrogant

phase as one does in

european intellectual history um

but then i then i went and worked in

hospitals for four years with dying


i heard people’s spiritual journeys i

sat as people

dying of cancer i listened to the to the


speaking and i had many um

little revelations from from you know

and i learned about suffering

and i learned what is medicine and what

is healing and why it’s important we

should work to solve suffering

you know and therefore i came to


um the medical profession

and the healing profession and that led

me back to philosophy

because to me philosophy is like a

doctor at a higher level of healing

okay so i don’t know if ultimately in

cosmic terms

we can argue does this planet matter if

this planet

is destroyed in nuclear war how does it

matter given there’s

. trillion suns in this galaxy alone

and there’s two trillion galaxies that

we know about

so in mathematical terms this planet

doesn’t matter that much

if it self-destructs a nuclear war


as a doctor on the job i’m a planetary


i would say the number of people who

would die

when when hiroshima and nagasaki bombs


you know tens of thousands died

instantly they were vaporized but then

tens of thousands died slowly in agony

their skin

burned they couldn’t their mouths were


they couldn’t even drink water you know

they died screaming

over many weeks months and years and

even now there are people who’ve


hibakushas who remember the dropping of

the bomb

now that was just two bombs if

a thousand two thousand three thousand

vote go off if delhi

beijing london moscow washington san

francisco all get nuclear bombs dropped

on them

think of the number of people that will

be dying in agony

think of the pain it would cause

well i’m trying to stop that because i

think that’s my duty as a doctor of


to prevent that suffering and so yes it

does matter to me

because i love people i love life i’m a


trained in medicine and and healing and


to prevent suffering and um

you know so i think that you need to go

and works with some dying people or

suffering people

and you’d realize life does matter it’s


and your parents you know should be very

you should be very grateful that they’ve

given you this opportunity to live

and have this life incarnation yeah to

learn a little more

yeah i understand that that they are

giving me

opportunity and they’re nice people also

i mean

i can just appreciate that more than

that i can’t

but what i

thought about love also i understood in

this way

like love is something like um

it will give us it will make us grounded

and it will

make us uh you know a

feeling of belonging like i done

this something to this person and that


going good in his life and he will

appreciate for instance i’m saving

um i’m trying to maybe i’m spending half

an hour with a cancer patient

and he is just his mind is becoming calm

and he is cool

and he is saying yeah

aaron was good he done this much as this

many things to me

and it gives me

a happiness it gives me like a

a sense of belonging you know but

when even i am thinking about that


feeling which i am getting what i feel

is like

does it again matter


well you know you you have to um

you have to think that one through

yourself you know

i mean i mean it does matter but um

there are different levels i mean it’s a

confusing phrase in english because to


does something matter it means what is

the matter with it

matter is the word for stuff you know


prakriti matter yeah

so does does procreatie matter

you know purusa surely is what matters

it’s the spirit that matters

and i think this feeling of well nothing

matters i think what is going on is your


is saying where am i you know what’s all

this world

yeah i i feel i i i’m uh alienated

actually i feel like myself i’m an alien


like you’ve just dropped in you don’t

quite know what’s going on

i know the feeling yeah um

yeah so that’s that’s typical of the

sort of french intellectual tradition

that’s camu

and sart the french existentialists they

start from that place

of that feeling of does anything matter

why is it all here that’s the beginning

of french philosophy

um and then one comes to a place of

i will act as if it does matter i will

pursue an ethical path even though maybe

there’s no god and i don’t have to

because i’m free to choose the good that

was what camus said

right and so in pursuing

ethics and goodness you realize you can

create your own meaning

we’re co-creating the world right

and by pursuing a path of goodness and

love and enlightenment by helping people

with your astrology

and your software and your work you’re

giving service

you’re co-creating a world of

enlightenment together

and that matters because that’s that’s

you then

are creating what matters you know

you’re you’re putting into space and


your own energy to help co-create the


um and if we all do that in good will

good faith

we all give service to each other in


ways and roles we can then we can create

a better world you know

and i’m a great optimist i think we can

do that i don’t i

i think we fail as a planet if we if

this world self-destructs and blows up

you know we’re all going to be in in in

detention for about a million calpers

does that make sense yeah so i have to

look and french exist


what is that french philosophies french


yeah yeah existentialism i’m speaking

from france

okay it’s uh it’s a very interesting

tradition also a man called shestov

he was russian but he ended up in france

great existentialist

they they face the void of

if there’s no god you know because

science had been very clever saying

explaining god away there’s no spiritual

stuff that’s just matter and then so

what does anything mean

why why are we here if we’re just bunch

of atoms

and chest of and these people they

looked at the deep deep

story of what’s going on and they came

back into a realization that there has

to be a spiritual

essence behind everything for it to have


and then what is that so that’s when one

can look at the sacred scriptures you

know look at the vedas look at the


look at the sutras the quran and so on

so that is where i actually started

looking at on uh

astrology veda santandra and things like

that because

other kind of philosophy is actually uh

making no sense at all like non-dual

philosophy i mean which shankara says

uh this and all not making any sense

because like

i’m becoming a celibate and going into

himalaya and just meditating there

where i’m just becoming like nothing i’m


doing anything good for the society i’m

not working for society

i’m not even empowering anybody i’m just

left and gone that is that is like known


principles like

so that is where i started to think


tantra like tantra has actually some use

at least i i’m at least true to myself

you know like i’m accepting uh

sexuality is the part of me uh drugs is

the part of me

and enjoyment is part of me not

enjoyment is part of me that is where i

actually started to learn about tundra


when i am seeing all these philosophy

something which is actually

goes with the life is like tantric


because this philosophy has something to

do with

life and the astrology is like uh

you know it’s actually helpful like

for uh some study being a very uh

layman terms it’s it’s like this is

something which

give them because they don’t have a

thought process of what matters

you know they don’t think about what is

that material

they they where they are it’s matter to


for them the family matters for them the

father matters for them the

sun matters the relationship matters uh

for them uh astrology is a science

where they will feel a sense of


uh like um it gives them a direction

like uh subjective uh

subjective understanding like they can

uh uh

um you know let themselves

them a map oh yeah yeah yeah can i ask

you a question about astrology i’m

interested in

this question i’ve never found an

astrologer can answer it properly right

i would like to develop a new astrology

which is based not on the moment of


most nato astrology is the moment you’re


i’d like to develop one on the moment

you’re conceived

which is nine months before normally

and i’d like us to become more conscious

of when we conceive

as a human human beings there is people

who are more conscious

in astrology have you ever come across

that yes yes

there is something called the bhavam

chat you know it’s like uh

six months before birth and six month

after birth

so we will adjust that degree uh so

it will give

six month after birth and six months

back birth

now that is called the bhavam that in

vedic astrology so

this okay together we will make a sense

of like

so basically just the natal chat won’t

give the uh accurate understanding it’s


we have to look at on the um chart

to give uh accurate uh

sense to uh the guy who is into samsara

which is

lost right but why not do it nine months

before because that’s the moment of

conception why not nine months before

yeah that also can be done

uh bhavam chat we can adjust little bit


planetary position will change nine

months back and month after

i i i will definitely want to do that

i’ll do that i mean

i can come up together i i can come up

with a chat which is nine months back

and then after also

so what is that it’s uh

what there is meaning like we can come

across like that and

there is something called peoples are

building something called

you know um uh what is that

there is itching astrology and

uh all these things put together they


something like uh human design

human descent human descent the same

human disease

oh design okay okay yeah okay

and that’s using the i ching did you say

the chinese

text huh they put everything together

and they came up

but uh

so however what whatever but uh the

we can look i can make this this thing


back and then nine months thing that

would be good yeah i’ve got another

question now about astrology for you

right um because i’ve known lots of


and what i’ve been told if i go to an

astrologer and they do my chart

and they tell me my i was born on the

th of may

so i’m in taurus in western astrology

it’s the same in india i think no no no

i’m born

western astrology and indian astrology


a degree difference is there it’s

it’s because of the reason

earth is like tilted little trees

yeah but actually western has taken in

this way

they are not thinking earth is tilted

but in vedic astrology it is tilted

so what happens you make it more

accurate yeah

huh this is um and

what happens is like there it means that

there is um

if uh sun in aries in uh

indian astrology it will be in

for sun is in towers in vedic astrology

sun will be in aries in western

astrology so there is a difference

so this is tilting of the earth

okay so that was going to be my question

which is why the western astrologers so

stupid why haven’t they kept

no it’s a it’s not stupid it’s not


like uh the thing is like what i saw is


western is more about body

uh and in asian religions is more about

spiritual like buddhism jainism and

tawasm and hinduism things like that

they are

more about spiritual but

while coming to the western it’s more


bodhi so i think that might be

but it is not uh wrong

western astrology is not wrong indian

astrology is not fun but i mean

well i mean surely it’s wrong if i at

the moment of my birth

i’m born in montreal right th of may

more uh in the afternoon so

but let’s say it was at night right so

if my father had looked out of the

window of the sky

and i’m in taurus it was may right

what should i see what what’s what does

it mean to say i’m born in taurus does

it mean that the bull is coming up over

the horizon

or what just take talk me through the

absolute basics

i want to know what i see in the sky

that makes it a taurus

or let’s say i’m born in delhi or


and you tell me i’m born with the

tourist sign

what does that mean in terms of

astronomy does it mean it’s at the

middle of the

sky or the middle or the horizon or what

so uh basically

it is a direction like north east south

west yeah i have send you a chat now you

can open and that

there is the right there is your number


so there is boxes you can see and did

you saw that boxes

i haven’t looked at the chart yet but i

mean i can see it in my mind i don’t

need to look at it all i want to know is

what’s what’s happening in the actual


at the moment of birth where is the

you know um at the exact moment you go

to berton particular time

and that time uh where was the moon

so basically these boxes you you you can


um uh you want me to share the screen i

can share you the screen

yeah yeah if you’ve got it there

so it’s showing where is the moon where

is the sun

where is everything can you see now

uh no you’ll have to um

oh yeah it’s coming yeah you can see


so here is the back okay here is a box


yes it is a box and uh what does it

means like

it’s just direction so uh this is

north east south west like that is just


yeah so this direction is being again

further divided into

equal parts so degree each

right so this is ascendant this is where

you get

birth yes

so at this particular time what was in


area that is going to be your natural

there will be a group of stars in this

particular direction

just means that it is a direction so

and the ascendant is the eastern horizon

isn’t it that’s

that’s what’s coming up in the east yeah


so what was there in this uh particular

area this there is there will be a group

of stars

okay there will be group of stars that

is of them

are there around this around this okay

there are of them are there around


so at this particular time this horizon

will be having

a group of stars

okay and that’s in mesha that’s the

aries right

yeah that’s the ram

huh so this is uh

we take this as first house ascendant as

as the first house

right from there we will count first

house second house third house fourth

house fifth house sister seven thousand

eight hours

like that okay

so we can actually go through what is

that means

actually uh so for instance in your

first house like this is ascendant

is the tanubava then dana each direction

will be having one one name

tanu means your tanu means your quality

right you are being what you being

okay dhana means um

what you will gain okay

sagachar means what you have

benthu means relative so for instance

here the fourth house there is saturn

and rahu is staying which means that you

were bento you were relative

that is saturn and rahu so

the rahu is the planet which is

associated with occult power and saturn

is the planet which has been associated

with the hard work so it means that

um um you have

you might be blessed with is like a

blueprint is not like

exact thing like this is what it is so

this is like

you are you are blessed with

hard work and occult power

if you see in your life this might be a


i’ve worked very hard at uh esoteric

philosophy all my life so

that’s probably that one

yeah so saturn and ahu comes together

that is what it is bundu then


okay what does it mean

well mars yeah war is my enemy so that’s

that’s pretty accurate

yeah i’m at war with war as a peace act

sorry what is that well i’m at war with


i’m a peace activist you know so if mars

is my enemy that’s fine

so uh what is that mars means to you

what do you understand by mars

i mean i don’t know everything i mean

whatever i know

you know well mars is the planet

military the military isn’t it

militarism war

um soldiering one and i’m i’m at


so if ahri is the um enemy

house then that’s perfect yeah

then there is sun and moon which is

staying on dharma house dharma means

your what is that being

assigned to you i mean nobody is


what is that particular planet will tell

you to do

um you know dharma mocha is a

yeah dharma is very important to me

obviously i try and live by dharma

so dharma can you translate that into

english what is that dharma means in


uh cosmic law exactly exactly

yeah yeah i try and live by dharma and

the word

comes from that sun and moon is staying

on that particular house

what does it mean that um

your father and mother that is being uh

somehow is related to uh um

to the work you do like something like

you have to do something to your father

some vows you have been taken which has

been not

filled and which is not been promised

something which has been promised which

is not being fulfilled

that is related to your father and


sure well i’m carrying on with their

good work they were peace activists so

i’m finishing off what they started

so in karma bhava there is mercury and

kedu is staying



so mercury is the planet which has been

associated with

uh speech yeah

intellect intellect so that is your


well that’s good because i’m a teacher

and a lecturer and stuff so you’re an


yeah that’s my karma

so lava is venus what you

gain out of that that is your what is

the return you get

so venus is uh associated with the

is the most blessed planet venus

actually so when venus comes into uh the

particular area of life

he will be get blessed with whatever a

human can get like

sex drugs and all this materialistic


which which somebody is wishing for that

and what’s lava what’s lava again that

is your game

oh the gain okay okay so well venus is

the goddess to me

the venus is better we see the christian


the venus is uh associated with the

um you know the lucifer actually

yeah but that’s that’s a dualistic

framework i’m a gnostic christian we we

like venus

we don’t have problems


now the thing is like christianity

is teaching so many

all this blessing they are seeing it as

sin like sex they are seeing it as a sin

uh the whatever the blessings which

human beings can accumulate and

dance songs even the muhammadin

religions they are seeing

not all the apart from the sufis but uh

my understanding apart from sufis they

are seeing

this as sin

like all the blessings what but that is

why i like

tundra more like tundra is accepting it

as it is

and tundra is like um

that is accepting life yeah i think i

think the christians

some of the muslims uh they

misunderstood the teachings

and they misheard you know it’s naughty


didn’t do their homework

that we have to re-educate them they

need to be re-educated in joy

and in love what’s this one jupiter’s in

vyaya what’s yaya yeah

is the moksha you know the liberation

final house

so this is associated with the uh


jupiter is the planet which is

associated with the wisdom

and knowledge so what does it means is


you know um


excellent well that is quite accurate

so these are the uh things which this

um vedic astrology and uh

see we have a concept and see this is

what i am speaking about

the this chat bhavam chat this is um

um uh six months before your birth and

six month

after year this is after uh your bet so

how do i calculate is like i take uh

uh the time of birth and six month after

the birth and then i combine this

together and

make uh i try to uh come into a

conclusion that is what i

do okay now that’s very interesting

and i will look at it with interest yeah

i haven’t had time i’ve been busy all


uh writing but thanks

that’s very exciting

and you use the square system it’s it’s

rather good isn’t it

do you do this by computer i mean how do

you work out

the positions this thing uh there are no

softwares to create this one

this is uh this is my finding like i

looked at on this thing and studied

and i found out this is the in this way

we can calculate


this one this is actually software


this one the brown one the brown one

that is software generated

okay right

okay well and what about the idea of an

astrology of peace

can you look up dates in history

and tell me why i mean that’s sort of

looking at um

um you know events and how they

manifest astrologically have you ever

done that kind of astrology

uh have you ever looked at

events in history and and analyzed

the astrology not just births i mean

you’ve done a birth chart here but if

you were to look at the historical event

one event i have observed is the now we


going through the copied situation right

so i

have made an analysis of that it is it

is there is a vedic system of

chart reading which is called

ashtavargam calculation i have made a

calculation about that and i made a

video also i can share with you that

what is going to happen in another five

years like

what is going on

right yeah i’d be interested in that

yeah so i

also done that that particular thing i

have calculated

uh a month ago before the kovid that was


uh it was happened in tiruvannamalai

in um um you know mantra cafe there was

a cafe

called the mantra cafe that is uh that

is from

a us guru his name is uh adida maharaja


i’ve been there yeah yeah i love it so

i’ve been in the same you know that

adidas he’s from u.s that one

teacher is from us

and he lives there no no he got samadhi

did was he called um gosh

he had various names he wrote lots of

books like yeah yeah

yeah yeah yeah yeah

right okay but he founded it there did


uh i mean his followers is doing that

okay okay right and you were sitting

there and you did a birth chart is that

what you’re talking yeah and that

i done the calculation that uh what is

gonna happen

for another five years for uh india


china and usa and what’s going to happen

good news good news and bad news mix it

together that there is no it is known

duality there is nothing called a good

well i understand there’s going to be a

mixture but it could be preponderance of

good or bad

i mean how many more people die do you

think this is the thing

like a lot of a lot of people are dying

from this disease right

yeah how many more are gonna die is it

gonna be cured

i don’t know i’ve never done that


i’ll share you this video i’ll send you

in a chat

i mean i’ll send you uh

and then yeah i’d love to see that yeah


i mean i’m i mean i don’t know if you

can uh do these things but

um i’m a great i want to know if this

covered we’re all dying from is caused


man-made research and laboratory that

leaked by mistake

or was it just an accident of nature a


from some bats you know and i’m trying

to get

governments to investigate that under

the united nations there’s a thing

called the bioweapons convention

which means that um governments should

be able to go into any lab

and say show us your log books did you

make this virus

and i’ve written to various officials

and i’ve even written to the people in


the indian institute of virology is in


they they have the expertise you know i

wrote to them and asked them

is this man made or not and i’ve written

to various other

scientific bodies i think we humans have

the do you have the right to know

you know are we dying in millions

because of bats or because of

war um so i think it’s it’s quite

important we keep that

question going but i don’t suppose you

can use astrology to do spying can you

do you know how to do spying

it is possible i mean i have to

go through because i have a lineage

a tantric lineage where people’s

believed we are black magicians like

this is our occupation we called us

ganakas in kerala

so we my father does astrology my

grandfather does astrology my great

grandfather does astrology like that you


psychic abilities that you can link yeah

so the uh house

so i i have to look at on the books

like is there any method to do it

yeah if you can find out for me using

astrology whether this is man-made

or was it an accident of bats i’d love

to know

and i’ll give you that question to try

and resolve

because i think it’s important

yeah i mean the thing is with esoteric

philosophy like tantra i i when i was

talking earlier

if you go very deeply into it you know

normal people

don’t understand in in england one of

our great scientists was a man called


d he lived at the time of queen

elizabeth the first

and it’s her birthday today by the way

my queen elizabeth the first

lived back in the days of um shakespeare

she was a patron of shakespeare and um

this man john d was her it was her


so he did for her the queen what you’re

doing now

and the mob said he was a black magician

because he was good at mathematics and

science and he wrote about

geometry and he could talk to the

spirits he had

he was a medium and so they called him a

black magician and

when he went to europe they burst in and

you know stole his library it’s it’s uh

it comes with the trade of being a


you get accused of being a black

magician so i wouldn’t take it


it just comes with the trade you know i

have to rise above it

and um stay one foot ahead of the mob

you know

well nice to talk to you do you have any

final questions before i go i’ve got

some work to get back to

but if you’ve got a question

some um

like if we um

need to continue this um relationship

uh what what what can be done like

well we can always keep in touch you

know you can send me the odd email and

you know we could have the odd chat i’m

i’m not going anywhere

i’m on lockdown in france i i

you know i’m running this institute for

peace studies

um and uh i’ve always been fascinated by


and the yeah the astronomy of it

the questions i was asking so i’m sure

we can next time we chat

maybe you’ll have some more questions

for me and i’ll ask you a few more

um and i’ll try i’ll find time to look

at my chart you know

that you’ve done kindly i’ll try and

understand it yeah

if you have any uh questions related to

your chat you can ask me

yeah yeah excellent

i use uh some cards also

this is crowley taro

yeah yeah i know guys yeah yeah i

go through most of the tarots out there

but uh

you know this is this is resonating more


my energy i mean i can yeah he was

he was a great magician yeah yeah he was

a bit of a tantra

yeah that’s what my understanding if he

was a great tamrik

which got birth the um west actually

if he was in india he could be a tantric


sure yeah yeah

yeah i mean we all we all swap lives

around and some of us get bored in india


some get bored in england or canada you

know it’s all the same work

this is what i mean about metta mahayana

we’re all working for global


um do you know the work of ken wilbur

don’t you come across

called ken wilber look him up he’s quite

a good good thinker

he’s been trying to link eastern and

western thought

um yeah quite an advanced thinker

he just happens to be born in america

and uh have you studied at university

did you do a degree ever

sorry have you ever been to university

yet did you study

in computer science right

but you didn’t do any philosophy no

okay well you can study that privately


yeah excellent

thank you right well nice to talk to you

keep keep smiling keep working away

keep turning the well does it matter

does it matter

but yeah you’ll find out it does matter

and every little bit of enlightenment

you can bring

it matters so when you give people

readings or help them

you know it matters uh from a from a

a relative perspective

does it matter from an ultimate cosmic


probably but in a slightly different way

yeah i’m also a poet so i write poetry

about these paradoxes in poetry you can


what really matters whereas in prose

it’s not so easy i’ll send you a couple

of my poems so you can um

you know look at them and crowley

yeah philosophy about the philosophy i

lived in i lived with philosophers like

there is something called the east west

university of brahmavidya it’s

it’s been started by uh guru

he was the student of sri narayana guru

uh so this there is one branch in


there is somebody called margaret

she was the direct disciple of raja guru

so i was i lived with her almost four

years there so

we basically speaking all about the

philosophy gurus philosophy

things like that so non-duality and

yeah she taught me a lot of things in


okay that’s very exciting yeah and um

sai baba lived near bangalore didn’t he

did you ever meet sai baba no no

no he was a flop too

he taught i went to see him once in

bangalore i went to his ashrae

in many years ago yeah

he was a great philosopher too i think


excellent well keep it up india seems to

be vibrantly still

alive and look up my friend swami

chattavadi when he’s next in bangalore

i’ll put you two together

yeah um yeah he would uh i’m sure you’d

like him

he speaks many languages malayalam and

tamil and all kinds of languages

as well and english

yeah right okay well nice to see you

shalom as they say and

namaste bless you aaron keep smiling

okay thank you okay

thanks bye.

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