Astrology Of Spiritual Experiences – A western and Eastern Overview.

Transcript (Auto translated can have spelling mistakes)

hello Arun how's it how's it going I'm glad to be here yeah it's everything is uh seems like good um planets are good humans are good and energy also good yeah how do you feel about this today today uh today's pretty good let me see what's what what's going on right now in the sky above me uh we've got squir sco Rising where I am and Jupiter in the seventh house uh K2 Sun Mercury in the 11th Venus in the 12th moons in MKS in in the eth but that's all right it's a good day to talk about transformation and uh spirituality a good time to do that so yeah so how long youve been in Asal like um yeah so I started studying Western astrology years ago I actually started first do studying ritual um planetary ritual and working with the different planetary uh archangels and Powers uh and then doing astrological magic Talisman and that kind of stuff and Renaissance magic Renaissance um astrological magic like the picatrix I studied with Christopher waro who is a fantastic Renaissance astrologer one of the best probably the best um and then it was it's only been a few years that I've been really going very deeply into viic astrology uh studying in the autan Dos tradition under Freedom Cole and uh and then his his teacher is Sanjay Roth so I'm taking some advanced classes I'm doing the pjc uh with under under the direction of Freedom uh sanj's sanj's class class so that's the tradition I'm studying in and you know everything that I know about uh viic astrology I've I've learned from from this traditions and anything that I say that is incorrect is is my own fault so like uh you have hands on like you know you have an experience with the Western astrology as well as the Bic system which I coming from you have an experience with those two so how do you see like you know if I see in the western astrology which is something I can I guess make out some important difference something like you know there is no concept of stars you know you understand that if you look into the vi astrology there are concept of stars Nas nras exactly nras is the group of stars so you Alpha Beta there is in the sky so there actually are um there there is that is that Concept in Western astrology yeah that's what I'm there is no concept which I so you're breaking up a little bit Yeah am I okay now well there there there is actually so there's there yeah so there are the fix stars that are used a lot um so like some there there are mainly a you know a few of them that are used um like alcade and um Al debron and and spika and so on there have Arabic names and then they we also do have lunar Mansions which in in in the tradtion that I that I studied when in the western is is more traditional Renaissance and middle middle ages astrology um and so they they do use most it's a lot of Arabic astrology and they do use um lunar Mansions but they're not tied which are noers but they're not tied to the stars because it's they're tropical uh lar Mansions but um there are still F Stars which are in in the I would like love to pursue somewhere there like because the Vic astrology also when we look into the sky uh nashra is actually a group of stars it's a constellation like something similar to I'm not so good uh I'm not able to understand what is this there in the Arabic astrology or things like that I am really not so sure uh what we are trying to talk over here but uh the thing is like in if you look into the Vic astrology the stars are the group of uh you know nras are the group of stars basically yeah the constellations yeah definitely and that's one of the things I like about about V astrology too it's very focused on what's actually in the sky um I mean whereas the tropical zodiac is based on the equinoxes and solstices you know so it's it's less about the actual actual constellations and more about um you know the point where the where the sun uh is you know the Sun and Moon are equal in in terms of the seasons um so they're both they both have their pluses and minuses in my opinion yeah like um but still uh there is some truth is hidden in both versions even so as a truth Seeker I'm trying to see whether uh like whatever truth which comes into the understanding of uh my my understanding and uh uh the way which I experience the same thing so I'm I'm kind of trying to seek a truth here you know whether it is Western astrology whether it is Indian astrology so where does it meet even though like you know even maybe we are different in color but you know under the hood we are all human beings so you see there will be something which is uniting all of us together in some place or another like you know maybe uh it may not be the language may not be the color may not be the shape may not be uh whatever but there is something which unify us as a human being uh under the hood and whatever the uh Wellness Sciences which we developed irrespective of whether it is in from west or whether it is from India or South uh there might be some truth so if we uh uh if we try to do a dialect in that uh sense uh maybe we will be able to see some truth which is hidden in you know which is actually hidden in the irrespective of the system which we follow like you know yeah and so the way I usually see it is that uh astrological systems are like languages so you can talk about the same dog in English or in Hindi or in Japanese and you you're all you're all describing the same uh object you know Consciousness this the dog um but to write a poem about that dog MH it's not going to be perfectly translatable in into the different languages because there's all these different nuances to each language and that's kind of how I see um the different astrological systems this the planets are still in the same place in the sky you know uh but it's it depends on how we divvy up the you know divy up the describing those those those planets and I I find their like different systems are better for different things too and one of the reasons that I'm studying the viic tradition that I'm studying in especially this particular tradition is that it's very good at seeing what is and uh seeing where there are problems and then remedying those problems so that's that's one of the so and and then again with language like language both um reveals and obscures you know like in a way everything every sentence that you say is a lie because the truth is not able to be articulated in words understanding is based on this intellectual understanding with which um is not you're not you're not you know the real truth is is not possible to to apprehend with the with with the with the mind uh this this thing I can actually uh what I found out is like you know in the in the way of relativity also we can say the same thing like uh uh you know every object in this particular planet or the particular uh plane of existence is movable with the respect to time which means that time is if we think time as an axis of X the every object is moving in that particular axis whether it is displacing in the uh Y axis maybe that Y axis we can consider it as the uh uh plane uh place or the space where this this particular thing is containing so if I move from here to here I'm moving in the a plane of uh uh space but even though if I'm moving from here even if I'm not moving from here to there also it is actually moving through the axis of time so what is happening here uh whatever we say is already being went into the axis of time because it's become past and whatever existing in the past is actually untrue so when we speak something in the words the words will be become untrue in the next moment because that particular word will make sense in that particular moment only you see so this is uh something which I have understood the way which you told this is something which I can easily relate to you know yeah yeah like there's that that saying um especially in like pop uh spiritual in in the US uh to be in the now be in the moment and it's it's kind of like in one way the moment doesn't exists because as soon as you experience a moment it's already passed in another way everything is the moment but yeah I I get what you're saying that's that's that's a that's a a strong Insight I think so so also in the Vic astrology like you know so uh Vic as ology we have a system of giving remedies and also uh when it come to the spiritual experiences like see here I'm trying to make a dialect actually like I am also coming from a background of the uh spirituality and the astrology actually like I also practice the viic astrology and uh I'm coming from that particular uh uh I'm practicing it from many years now so um uh uh in this thing um I can see the remedies and uh how do you how do you relate your uh uh uh um like when we talk about uh something which is giving a profound spiritual experiences that might be having a truth behind it like you know how do you feel like you know uh uh I think you also come across the remedies maybe you could have tried something or maybe you could have G something you know is there something like that is been happened or how do you see this particular stuff like you know yeah so this is one of the another reason that I've I've been that I've started studying in this tradition and I've been studying this you know in this tradition is is to to there are more tools for seeing spiritual experiences for um and for working on that level than in the western astrological toolkit um um and in a certain way like when we talk about spirituality too like we there's a lot of different things that are called spirituality you know um and my main focus my main interest has been in in Enlightenment in the in terms of like real the realization of the essence of of of being you know and so that's what I'm I've been mainly more focused on like my spiritual teachers um their like they're they they focus on that self inquiry and self-realization and so that's what I see as like for me that's that's the highest spirituality there's also you know working with various Spirits um magic like cities powers like these kind of things are also they're in a one way they're spiritual but in I think in the more essential meaning of spirituality they're not really spiritual you know just one phenomenon um so like I I would I would love to I I how do I see this particular thing like for example uh in spirituality spirituality doesn't come naturally you need a practice or a guide in that particular path you need a particular practice which which helps you to go in that particular path either it is in the self enquiry like uh like the ri who is from the South India he is asking like you know who am I maybe this is one particular practice or some deity worship or those things one particular practice is needed so certain L what happens this particular practice will Elevate You from One smaller place to another particular plane so naturally you develop City there is nothing I mean if if it is a technology there is city will be developed actually like it will come if you are in a particular path you know right so so what I've been what I've been doing is I've been studying the charts of who I people who I consider to be spiritually enlightened at a a higher point that I am that in in a place that I want to be you know um and so I've been looking at their charts and seeing where the similarities are looking at like BR hor shastra and seeing um what are the classical indications of Enlightenment Moka uh spirituality and seeing you know do these people have these yogas do these people have these indications like K2 and the 12th of the kuma in the you know the the Amar and the Naoma these kind of things and seeing what how how that how it actually lines up um and I've been I've found some interesting things too because also in the people in in my you know I'm I'm in America the people that I um interact with are mostly Americans um and there's you know every I think every culture has a different angle to their spirituality too uh but I've come across a lot of people who are have not really focused as much on Baki but have focused more on this self-inquiry and and inquiry in general and some of them some people seem to just you know walk off of a bus and suddenly are enlightened you know and you know who knows what happens in it happened in their past lives um uh but some people like have spent their entire life working and you know meditating very hard and are they doing the right practices like how do you know what the right practices are to do so that's another thing I'm trying to see in the in the chart like um because you you can you can see like what kind of meditation would be better for them and also what kind of meditation like are they more of a baky path are they more of a gani path are you know so um that's that's kind of like where my area of interest is right now that's what what I'm I'm looking to we can look at some charts if you'd like to because I've I've got some charts and I've been would you like to um yeah like what makes you to think a particular chart whether it is bakti or whether it is Gand like you know that would be an interesting discussion basically okay I mean if you if you let me share the screen I have several charts um that I can look at I can show some of the techniques that I've been looking at um how do I make make host yeah I think you can sh but I also you know I also read yeah like so everyone's also got their own perspective and one of the things that I that I've um see I see too is like a lot of the people who who I see as who have had some real Enlightenment some real realization of Truth one of the things that they say often is that nothing that you do M makes you deserve it you know nothing that you do makes it happen but at the same time most of the people who have seen who have found something have worked most their entire life fors him you know so it's kind of a paradox because I think that ultimately it's Grace right it's it's nothing the personal does it's the higher self that I didn't understand what was that like you know um what you trying to say there like so I think ultimately what what makes spiritual realization happen is not anything that the individual person does mhh like it's not any particular meditation practice it's not any particular Baki practice uh it's something that happens on a higher level you know and this is a lot of something that a lot of people say is that nothing that you can do will make you realized because it's it's not something that's happening on this plane it's something that's happening on a higher level um but at the same time everybody that most of the people who I who I've seen who have had some major experiences um have been working most of their life towards it you know so it's kind of complicated as to like Are any are any of the practices that you're doing actually causing Enlightenment I don't know if anything causes Enlightenment you know they may cause they may they may cause City they may cause you know psychic power they may cause all these you know these kind of things but I don't know if anything causes Enlightenment but that's one of the things I'm looking at too is looking at the um timing so like when elment happens and the uh in the transits at that time too so let's look at um well ran Mahari for instance so so we've got Roman Mahari he has one of the classic indications of Enlightenment he has K to 12 from his op Makara in the D9 You' been to uh sometime like's place is which is in Tamil Nadu where he born actually who thought the uh self inquiry to the people and it is a magical place where the energy of that particular mountain is so intense where that will that can Elevate the people from really you know from the sub level to really higher I mean this is how I feel but I never been to America I don't know what happens in America you see but you know yeah I think that uh um Americans are often a lot more um individualistic in one way and then also much more like bootstraps uh so like I have an I have a friend who was born in India who came to America um when she was in grad school and she like she was searching her entire life but it wasn't until she met some some folks who really like ened her that it's possible for her in this lifetime to realize the truth you know because you know she's not she's not a Brahman she's a woman she's you know like these are kind of things that and so she didn't she doesn't even have some of the um indications in the chart but she she does have a very strong Venus in the D20 which indicates a very strong Baki um but also some indications for inquiry and um and and yeah doing the inquiry and and realizing that this is something that can happen kind of and that you have to you it's the Paradox of like you have to put effort into it but you Al it also is out of your hands you know so she so she eventually did um have a re have a a realization um but I think it's it's it's like also different for every person so for her coming into a place where like the the inquiry was emphasized and then having faith in that is what is what led to it but again it's hard to see like what actually you know if it's if anything leads to it or so that's what I'm trying to understand you know um yeah but I yeah so so with with um with Roman Mahari he has that that is one of the main indications also one thing that I've seen for people in general who are spiritual in the 11th house that is what you are you you are observing right okay yes so what what I'm observing is so do you know the the concept of theara huh is the planet which is the I mean I'm also I'm a VI astrologer basically I mean yeah right so so in the in the I I know there are also a lot of different traditions in some traditions don't use the yakara some do EXA yeah yeah so in the in what in my tradition we look at the the amakara in the D9 in the Noma MH and we see what planet is 12th from that um car so for for rahari that's K2 in Taurus as 12th from the Makara and that shows the that planet represents the ish and in my tradition ish D isn't just your chosen deity it's not just the deity you like it's the deity that helps you towards Liberation so it's What in in in in a western context I would call that like a holy guardian angel m in a certain way that's concept that's similar but like it's it's the deity that's that's helping the soul gain Liberation so um in in bar pror shastra one of the indications for Moka or Enlightenment is to have K2 12th from the amakara in the D9 and so that's classic and of the people that I I I looked at um 14 charts of of people who H have in my opinion found Enlightenment and um nine of them are living and then five of them are are you know like ran Mahari Nar gadada um some other people and half of them had K2 as isav were associated with the 12 from the the Amara but not everyone did and then a bunch half of them had toosy yogas which indicate the ability to the capability to have very strong uh spiritual practice MH and not very many of them had sadu yogas not very many of them had yogas indicating um being an aesthetic but of course that makes sense because none of them are Aesthetics most of them are householders I mean ran Mahari yeah was but um most of the other people that I have here were had a household actually yeah let's look at his his chart and so he has got this really strong Sun Venus Mercury Rising in in the in in Aries so he's got an exalted sun rising and um yeah so his amakara is Venus and another thing that we see oftentimes for people who have very strong spiritualities is if the amakara is either the Sun or is associated with the sun and associated with the ascendant so like the of the lanesha the amakara and the Sun and Al Jupiter too that's that that's like show somebody with a very strong spirituality so for him we have the sun in the ascendant conjunct the amakara with Jupiter aspecting so that's like you know OB like very closely that shows spirituality very strong spiritual practice and for him um he has Saturn 12 from the Amar in the D9 so that's not K2 um but again only half of the people that I that I saw he he has these other indications you know mhm and so we have some of these things um we looked at I looked at dasha's who this too so I was looking at mulos actually worked pretty well too so he he renounced him Saturn Mercury and that I was often finding there's like like Saturn for him is a um is a planet that indicates death you know because it's in the eighth house it's the most mfic planet um and so for I was finding this too that for our L experiences often uh maras we being uh triggered so like planets indicate death we being triggered because it's a death experience as well you [Music] know um and then here this person also this he had some of the most interesting combinations he's this is a person who's living still and this is a person who never consciously was uh doing spiritual practice in his life MH but he did a lot of philosophical inquiry and then at a certain point he um was just curiously inquiring into what it meant to be human and he was driving a lot he drove truck he drove a truck um and during about a year he had the series of realizations that ended up with like the self-realization and he's again he was somebody who was born into a family where there was a lot of esoteric um spiritual stuff going on but he kind of rebelled against that and went more into like other kinds of philosophy but he has K2 rising and K2 is the is the caraka of of Liberation you know it also is the caraka of trucks and um it shows a very strong intuition his uh his fifth Lord is also in the fifth house showing a very strong intuition and uh Saturn and Venus and K2 in shrines that's one of the tooshy yoga so it shows a capability for strong spiritual practice probably he was doing this in a past life he was probably a monk in a past life um and he has actually a tooshy yoga in the D1 the D9 as well and in the D20 and the D20 is a really interesting chart for looking at spirituality to do you do you use the D20 I come up to D9 like uh more than that I don't go like basically up to D9 uh we will be able to figure out what is actually going on uh and if some certain cases like people are not that much uh uh interested in to go to D D20 D21 d22 up to like you know it's very yeah very short cases like you know I mean generally people don't ask up to D20 up to D9 we will be able to uh uh calculate most of the things what is happening in their life like you know yeah so in in my in my in the tradition that I study in sanj Roth um he he emphasizes the divisional charts pretty extensively I think I think it's one of the Traditions that focuses more on them but we use the D20 for Spiritual spiritual path you know and in this in this chart um we we see the moon debilitated in the first house and debilitated planets in the D20 are actually a good thing because that shows uh humility and humbleness this is a very humble person and then the ascendant Lord is going to the 12th house so this shows like a natural movement to uh samadi for him the 12th house in the deep in the D20 is is that that kind of formless uh meditation you know and there's a lot of other things in here too but he also has um Venus Saturn and K2 they're in mutual quadrants but they're not it's not a full not a full toas yoga so that's just another thing and these are all things I've I've learned um from the tradition and so he also this is happening during his ra rahu Venus Vim Tre Dasha so that toas yoga is getting triggered as well as rahu is probably the strongest Mar in his chart is the seventh house is am and rahu is a very um malefic Planet so again that um that's getting triggered that very strong like death deathlike suffering so Enlightenment experiences are not are not fun is is one thing that I've I've uh you can see pretty clearly but like another some of these other people eugi Krishna merty he's I know he's a little controversial but he also has um this uh K2 Venus and and Saturn in the D20 he has a tooshy he has a tooshy yoga um we can and then jidu Krishna mty also has um Venus Saturn K2 where is that he has another toas yogan one of these Venus and Saturn yeah so this is by Rashi drishti that's the other way we see it either in shrines or so this this is D9 you're looking at so you can you can see the tooshy yoga either in the D1 the D9 or the D20 and that will show that that strong but there are other indicate there are other yogas too that show but this was the one that that popped up the most for me in this context and so I what I want to do yeah here is also like you know uh one thing is like you know yoga is actually different from what is astrological yoga which is actually different from the other yoga which we are talking about that also if we have to clarify here because otherwise the people who is who will listen to this maybe get confused like you know like a certain planetary combinations maybe we can call it as a yoga but uh uh in actual actual sense the yoga means yoga means the union with something you know so yeah yeah yeah so when I when I when I say yoga I mean that it's a planetary combination combination of planets and yeah so different planetary combinations I mean those that that's like half of astrology I think in a way there like all these different planetary combinations and what they're showing so that toosy yoga Venus Saturn and K2 either in shrines or um mutually aspecting by Rashi drishti which is a sign based aspect um that shows that tooshy that that ability to do a lot of topus or or spiritual practice strong the way which I drew the chart also is different like you know you can actually Google the South Indian yeah South Indian actually this is North Indian chart which you have SE showed yeah so we can do that too I I I mainly I usually use the North Indian the chat which I use is the one which in which the in Center that home is printed that South inan one that is the thing which yeah yeah yeah that is called sou chart so that is the chart which I use mostly cool and the 12th house where uh like you know in the 12 house is also associated with Mo yeah that like in the D1 itself like you know like we can see like something like that in the and how do how do you see the yogas in the western astrology um in Western astrology uh yogas are they're starting to be used more um but so in traditional like Renaissance astrology it's it's more aspect-based by um by like straight aspect So like um there there's a different understanding of aspects and because Western astrology since the late Classical period basically didn't use whol sign houses maybe like Middle Ages um they started not using whol sign houses and they use um quadrant houses mainly so it's you don't see the planets as in the same house as much I mean you you can see that but um it's more about how close of an aspect an exact aspect they have so for instance um Saturn and Sun if they are within one degree of each other that's a very very strong conjunction or if they're in within one degree of an opposition or a shrine or or a square um those are those are the that that's that's kind of how how you see yogas more often in the western context but it's not really the same so that's one of the things about viic astrology let's say one one kind of yoga in vic astrology like you know can you name One Yoga like let's say you understand what is Raj yoga right like you know the and some certain planetary combination will bring yeah it's very complicated though because there can be so many different kinds of Raj yoga yeah yeah yeah so how do we see like you know this also depends on the people's chat and his understanding how do we see this particular yoga can there be an equivalent in the western astrology Western version of the astrology I'm not trying to say the Raj yoga per but something else yeah yeah so for instance like a Maha perusi yoga I mean you can see that in any Western chart too you just have to have a planet in one of the angles uh in their own sign or their exaltation so you know if you have Jupiter on the mid Heaven which is like the MC it's like where what's exactly above um in in cancer then that's a m that could be that could be considered a Maha prish yoga but then it's in cancer in the tropical system so it's not going to be it's most of nakan cancer in the siderial so it's not I don't know if it really counts as a Maha perou you know but but you could look at like so forance Jupiter K2 together that's that's a combination that indicates a spiritual lineage and so if if you have Jupiter and the South node very closely conjunct in in the western system I mean that that that can show show a yoga yoga for for being in a spiritual lineage but it is really I feel like yogas are more of a wh sign house uh technique you know and if you're using the quadrant houses and you're using more of these direct aspects um it's not as it's it's not going to be used as much you know other other things are going to be used you know other techniques are going to be used I think that each each kind of system has techniques that work better within that system and and you can't necessarily take those techniques out and use it in a system that it's not meant to be used okay yeah yeah and I'm sorry if I'm like going too fast um sometimes I just like I I should slow down and like be kind of clear about what I'm trying to say for the don't AR as um well verst as as you are in in uh the astrological systems too um but one thing that I was thinking about is that so with aspects for instance they're they're different in vadic astrology than in um in Western astrology so we have like special aspects for each planet that are by whole sign in vadic astrology So like um Mo Venus and Mercury and the Sun and the Moon they kind of only give seventh house aspects you know they aspect everything in the seventh house uh but Jupiter will aspect the fifth the ninth and the seventh and then rahu will aspect the second the fifth the ninth and the seventh and Saturn aspects the third the seventh and the 10th you know and then the Mars aspects the fourth the seventh and the eth so each planet has a different like full aspect on and it's by by whole sign house but in Western astrology generally each planet they there all the different aspects are can be each planet can have each of the different aspects but they have to with an orb and the orb is how far it is from an EXA exact conjunction or exact opposition or or an exact Square um and so like the opposition is that 17 but it has to be within uh usually like 8 degrees of being exact you know and so any planet can have that any planet can have a square aspect and that has to be you know within that almost exact um 90 degrees MH yeah so um so it's a little bit different aspects are a little bit different and and I think partially that's because they're not using holin house as much you know and then there is there there has been a a um since helenistic astrology has been making a Resurgence over the last 10 years or so um a lot of people are using wh sign but they're not using all of the they're not always using all the techniques that go with it you know because a lot of that has been lost so um so yogas are harder to see in a way because they're more of a whol sign house technique in my in my opinion yeah and also there is a uh there is a problem which we can uh uh see yeah there is a problem we can see like you know um you know the how the planet Earth is actually existing like uh it will will be like this okay and there is an axis the Earth is has an axis and it has an 18° tilt like you know in viic astrology it has been there you know so how uh maybe is this affecting the uh calculation that is happening in the western astrology and you know how do you see about this like I mean right yeah so that if if what I understand is is correct what you're saying if I I'm understanding what you're saying is is correct yeah so that's kind of the the how the quadrant houses are figured out you know because they're looking at the exact um degree of the ascendant and The Descendant and then they're calculating the exact midheaven and then what's under the Earth so they're they're calculating those exact um coordinates and then the houses are defined from them instead of from the just just B based on 30 signs you know so some like like and in the summer especially in like the Northern Hemisphere or the southern hemisphere it's gonna like if you're closer to the to to the um poles it's going to be major differences one house one one house could take you because on average in the in the tropics going through a whole Sign House it'll take you about two hours right for um but you could it could take five hours to go through to go through a a sign in a quadrant house in the in Alaska depending on if it's in the summer or it's in the winter you know so that's yeah this is also one important point to think of like you know in India we don't have the summer timing and the winter timing There is five hours difference in the summer like you know am will be become p.m and p.m will be become a.m. like it's the 12 hour clock or 24hour clock is not exact going to work there so this is also something like you know some of the my friends are talking about that how do this shoots like you know this is also I I never experienced this thing in being in India like you know so how do you manage that stuff like I mean in the viic astrology and uh bestern astrology how do you look well yeah that's one of the things I've been thinking about as to why in Western astrology um the tropical s the tropical signs are used more and the quadron houses are used more because if you're in England for instance you're you're a lot farther you're closer to the polls so and also the the the seasons are very different there are like four distinct seasons and and so like the tropical the tropical system is is seasonal you know it's based on spring summer uh fall and winter and those are very distinct um whereas uh it you know if if you're closer to the tropics there are Le there are less maybe I mean there's like monsoon season and I I never been I haven't been in the tropics very often so it's like I don't I don't even really know but um from my understanding there's less of a Four Season um kind of a thing like when I visit Florida um it's you know it's it's there maybe more of a rainy season more of a dry season but it's not those distinct uh Four Seasons so that's one that's I think that's one reason that um the tropical system is used and one reason those bodr houses are used because things do change so much in the um in if you're if you're closer to the poles but I you know I don't really know um yeah so if we like you know if uh one planet let's say Venus Venus is in taus uh in vic astrology so if we look into the Western astrology it will come to the Aries uh if because of the Tilt so the prediction also can change a lot that's what I'm wondering like you know how does it work oh you're so you're talking about yeah so you're talking about the um the procession of the equinoxes that yeah the til that's causing the procession of equinoxes right and so um my teacher Freedom Cole actually wrote a really interesting article about this you call it's like something like the great divorce it's about how the two zodiac systems uh were together and then they separated over the years too so yeah so um so what for people who don't know that that there's this uh tilt to the Earth and that causes the procession of the equinoxes so um at one time maybe I think it was about 200 ad uh the the tropical zodiac which is tied to the sky it's the same 30 degree sections but they're tied to the sky at the equinoxes and sues and then the the siderial Zodiac which is tied to the sky at the fix star Spa the most most siderial Zodiacs um it depends on how you calculate Spa you know because there's you know that's where there's there's some difference between the different cederal Zodiacs but uh at at at around 200 ad I believe it was 200 ad they were the same so Aries tropical Aries and cidial Aries were the same 30 degree section of the sky and so all the the the significations for the siderial and the tropical were both in that same sign so they were married in a certain way but because of that the the procession of the equinoxes The Equinox is that point is moving by one degree every 72 years so over hundreds of years we're now 20 23 point something degrees separate or 24 degrees between 23 and 24 depending on which iuma you use um from the um the siderial is about 23 24 degrees different from the tropical so you can you can still have the moon in in in Aquarius and both but still be at the end of one sign and the beginning of the other you know yeah so in terms of in terms of of interpretation um that's something I'm still I'm exploring I'm like seeing how things happen too because um it it seems like for me and and from the tradition I'm I'm learning in like Freedom explains that uh uses different house system like the Bava house system and the um there's there there's some other ones too and the the whole Sign House system with the siderial Zodiac shows what is what is what actually is and then um that more quadrant house you can see like what you are how how um you're you're what is is being distorted to a certain degree too the more like how you're influenced by society and so on um and in terms of the tropical there are some differences but it's mainly the same system in terms of like what what planets are exalted where they're debilitated uh where where their own signs are um and I use that to to a high degree in like Talisman making and like that kind of thing because the the the manual that I use the picatrix um uses the tropical the tropical system um but but I also in the in the the vadc system there are all these different divisional charts too and that's I think one way to see the tropical zodiac as like another division you know another layer that you can layer on top um but again this is something I'm still experimenting with people get very good results from tropical but they're mainly using these kind of exact aspects and it's more it's really useful psychologically for like and seeing that how the mind distorts reality you know that is that is what the my understanding is like you know most of the uh bestern astrological version is actually how uh most of it is related to the mind you know how the mind is per the uh perceive the reality which is actually happening around and how how mind can work with this particular reality uh this is what my understanding so far what as far as I studied and uh understood like you know I mean this is yeah I mean what do you feel like you know I mean the modern modern Western astrology is very psychological but that's also one of the reasons that I studied the more traditional Renaissance and medieval astrology because it's more predictive and it's more you know it's more useful in that way more practical um in real world things but that's the other thing that I think that like that the tropical and Western astrology olog is better for seeing the mind and how the mind distorts reality and the siderial with the whole analysis the vadic system is better for seeing what is and what's going wrong and then being able to remedy that you know yeah yeah um in terms of real world like what's actually happening life um whereas you can you can do a lot psychologically and other things with the Western but again I'm still you know the jury is still out for me I'm still experimenting and and and learning and seeing how how these different Z acts are interacting and how the different systems interact and and like have you did any remedies in vic way in uh Us and how does it go like is there something did you try to do some remedy and uh did it go any how does that work actually like I mean right so I guess to start um in the tradition that I study within um we primarily do remedy on on three kinds of remedies um so like Mantra practice MH um donation MH donation donation in the giving offering to someone yeah right so for instance if you have a cursed Venus heavily Afflicted Venus you want to donate to women who have been like young women who have been abused or or you know suffering suffering in some way if you have a cursed Mars want to be offering to Veterans you have a curse to Moon you want to be offering uh donations to mothers you know that kind of okay and then also p and then so I also recommend puas or rituals and I've done a lot of ritual in a western perspective from like a western ceremonial um perspective and actually I did write a book should probably mention um my background is also in in Western ceremonial magic which is a kind of Pua you know and I wrote this the Heathen Golden Dawn you can't really see it but okay it's the Heathen Golden Dawn and this is um ceremonial Magic from a a Norse Heathen perspective and so I'm there are all these um you're using the deity forms and that's that's another thing like the tradition that I study in we um use the deity forms for specific specific da forms for you know for instance um like using the the the avatars of Vishnu Rama is the sun Krishna is the moon and so on and in the north Norse system we have Thor corresponds to Mercury no sorry Thor cor corresponds to Jupiter Odin corresponds to Mercury uh Venus is Freya um you know we have all these other you know correspondences and then there are there's a framework of ceremonial magic like ritual work that you can do to invoke these different energies and this from the Golden Dawn tradition where you're doing different like mostly hexagram rituals um as well as you can make like amulets and so on and so this is this is one level that's like the ritual level but you can also you know hire a pujari who's highly skilled to do like the you know and that will be in many ways much more potent but then again doing doing this kind of ritual for yourself can also be and this is something that I did for years this kind of work this ritual work I did for years before I even started studying um viic astrology you know but so like I was remedying and balancing a lot of my planetary imbalances for these years by doing those rituals you know and so that's and one other thing that my that freedom does is he he uses he one of the great things about about astrology is that the planets are the language of the Gods and so they're you can use them to read what the gods want you know um but you can translate that into different cultural contexts as well so that mercury can be um Buddha as a incarnation of Vishnu in that that context it could be um Odin in the Norse system it could be Hermes in a Greek um and then there it could be Raphael in a Catholic you know so um Translating that to whatever spiritual tradition that the the the person is working within is is important to so that's yeah so there's that that that ritual aspect which um there are a lot of ways to do that um there's that donation aspect and then there's the Mantra aspect too and for montras too like um if you are Jewish there are all these different uh prayers you can do in Hebrew right and those finding the right mantra for that the right Hebrew prayer you can you can do that um but there there's already this whole system of correspondences um with the correct mantras and so on so uh so how does it worked out like you know what was the result like you know yeah so for me um like for example when I'm trying to say this like you know if there is a Naga DOA like you know if we figure out serpent DOA like there is a problem with the serpent in the particular chart so it is easy for person to go to a temple where the serpent deity is being Worship in India because there are many temples in many places in many deities uh but how does it work in the western framework because I guess that there are not this many temples but you can see in that India it is not available there any M like I right yeah and so that's one of the work that's some of the work that freedom is doing that I'm I'm learning to do as well is to translate that and see like what so for one of the things that freedom recommends is for especially with a nagad Doha and we can see the nagad doas in in several different ways you have a nagaosa in a fixed sign um where it's AA a nagaba do DOA which shows there's an unseen obstacle it shows that the sarpas are the the sarpas are mad at you um and if it's um if it's the the inferior serpents and there are several different layers you can see the superior serpent yeah there are male serpent female Serpent and serpent that is actually guarding the uh you know what to say the gold uh in some places the serpents will be guarding the gold you know uh we can actually there are multiple layers of serpents yes yeah so what he recommends to do is um especially in certain circumstances to donate to do reforestation like donate to ARB Arbor because um he he sees the the sarpas as uh nature spirits who protect the land and so if you have a nadha that's probably because you cut down a sacred grove in a past life or you know you in in a past life you clearcut a bunch of forest and so the sarpas are mad at you in this life so you donate to do reforestation projects where if it's in like a water sign and Jupiter's involved you could donate to whales and whale you know to protect the whales so you're so that's one way that in this tradition especially Freedom's teachings that we that we translate that into in Western practice but we can also like um still do p like hire a pujari to do aaga Dosha Pua or you something like that um and also like you know if you look into the nras in India there are 27 nras and each NRA has one one plant iated with that like these plants are actually available in India only this cannot grow I don't know whether it can grow in the American soil or no I I am not so sure also this 27 nras has 27 animals each one will be having one one animal so the like if like it it can be in a in a certain way we can visualize in this particular way also like you know if you if you if you feel the energy of a particular uh PL or if you feel the energy of a particular animal that is in res resonate with the energy that you are vibrating from your body so this can actually heal you and the surrounding around you and this can give you more you know experience in the spiritual way and stuffs like that like you know so how I'm trying to visualize this how does it can happen in the uh uh Western world like how does it will happen like for example because these animals and these trees uh cannot be present in the uh may not be there in the uh you know America per say like you know say America right so there's kind there's a few levels to this and one level is that we also do live in a in a in a world where I can speak to you um you're in India I'm in the US so we can still we can order things you know online and and get them from all over the world um so there's very inter interconnected world at this point so you can get some of those same plants well you can't grow them they don't do well in this in this Northern soil um this Northern temper you know temperate climate um and I actually even run to that in the same way with um a lot of the European herbs because some of the European herbs don't grow here and like so there there there is this tradition of astrological herbalism in in in the west um like Nicholas C pepper it was a a 17th century 16th century um 17th century astrologer and herbalist and he wrote one of the most famous books on herbalism C Pepper's U complete herbal um and the English physician um and that's that book has been stayed in print for all these hundreds of years but he has all these correspondences between planets and plants and herbs um and some of those plants you know they don't really grow here in in the us we have all these other plants that do grow here so there's a there's a lot of work to be done um for American herbalists and astrologers to do to find the correspondences and see like what what what they actually correspond to um and then how to utilize that um in remedies and I've done a lot more with planets than with nox shatas though there are we do have um some plants from the the the the Arabic uh lunar Mansions there are some correspondences but then again most of those plants are not don't grow around here either um but with with the plan planets it's a lot it's it's easier to see like the solar qualities of a plant you know if it has a bright yellow flower you know if it um destroys if it's like antiseptic if it destroys disease that's very solar quality uh so things like things that that grow in like I'm I'm looking out my window right now and seeing um a rebec laata which is a uh cut Leaf cut Leaf cone flower has a bright yellow flower very tall it's very cheerful um it and that's that there's a solar quality to that plant so I can use that in Solar Sun Sun remedies if you're making a a um herbal uh amulet you know but you also have have a list lists of like um magical herbalism and like what herb uh works for different things so like chamomile is a good protective plant but it's also herbally uh calming and and that's another solar plant so that's that's one you can use Angelica is very powerful as a um Ward against evil it destroys evil it destroys curses and hexes that's either solar plant um so like combining these these plants in different ways um on on the day of the on Sunday you know when the sun is rising or in the mid Heaven um when the sun is in a in in a strong sign you know that's a that's a great way to do some what we call natural magic and that's another uh form of remediation that's is more from a western context too and I do explore this I did a video a presentation for astromagia which is a conference on astrological magic and on my YouTube on the plant cunning YouTube It's called um secrets of the English astrological um herbalists um and there that goes into a lot of that theory and practice too there are some other really good books I think this this would be an interesting talk to have actually like you know I I like to see the astrology in this particular way also like you know uh it it is a way to protect uh uh nature as well like uh um you if you find there's a particular plant like most of the peop right now they won't even come out from their home or they won't even come out from the place where they are like you know when they are going for the work they use a car or you know a bike to go there to their work and the uh flat will be in second floor or third floor or fourth floor and they they are really disconnected from the uh you know in as a as a human they're really disconnected like but if we look into the Shamanism and animism and things like that you become the essence of that particular plant or particular animal like in shamanic healing or whatever we look into so if we look into the Vic astrology there is also there is an aspects of like you know ASI the first NRA which is related to so and so plants and so and so animals so this is this is this is a kind of animism and uh you know Shamanism which I would love to say so this could be an interesting talk maybe we can have later on like you know this particular has this particular plan and how do you relate that from the Western perspective that how we can like you know how it is actually related to the Western ideology or Western design of the human being because human beings that the mind is also uh I mean it is actually I mean the way we think each other is different but even though we are uniting with some truth or we are seeking some truth in the life of existence even though like you know so I mean yeah so how do you see about that I mean well yeah that's definitely something that I want to explore and learn about more because I I'm not as familiar even with the nakshatras and the well the plants that correspond to them it's not something that I've studied in depth yet but I'm very interested in doing at some point soon and maybe like you could we could have I could have you on my show and we could talk about that you know that'd be that'd be fun um but that's definitely something I want to explore more and it it take it's something that will take a lot of experimentation um on the part of you know people like me who who are like living with the the plants in the US and are learning this system to be able to make those correspondences I think that part partly part of that is um understanding the like the the Ence of of like the no shatas and then seeing what plants um correspond to that also like what what the essence of the nox Strater is and what the essence of the plant is that's that's corresponding to that and see what if there's another plant in my context that um does a lot of the same things you know or maybe this particular plant can grow in the US we never know I don't know I mean yeah well I you know I do grow like ashwagandha in our poop house oh and I do we do grow some other things um Tulsi uhhuh Tulsi grows in the US there's a a particular variety of it um it's more of a herbaceous like fast growing one um I think they call it Krishna not no I foret what what what or yeah I'm not sure what the the exact name of it is but it's not any it's it's like a smaller one it smells like Tutti Frutti bubblegum so we grew that and that does really well in this climate it's more of an annual you rece it every year um so yeah those are those are two herbs I do grow they they we can grow them as an anal but they don't grow year after you know you have to keep growing them every every every spring you know the seed won't grow like the seeds will they they they'll die in the winter you can replant the seeds no not yeah yeah yes yes so we I start them from seed Every Spring and then they grow all summer and then we Harvest them in the fall and then we grow them again in the spring so they don't can't winter here tactical Perman culture yeah yeah yeah so so they're not they're not permanent they're not perennial but we have a lot of other plants that are perennial we have a lot of I've got so many plants here there's a lot a lot of uh do yeah but that's definitely something I'm very interested in doing doing of trying to so the one aspect is like seeing from an from an analytical perspective what could be the good correspondences and then on the other perspective doing the experimentation and seeing what works and certainly and so you want to say something over here anything which I didn't we didn't C oh yeah so if um if you're hearing this and you aren't familiar with my uh pod uh we do we talk about plants magic uh spirituality astrology on the plant cunning podcast and that's available on YouTube um on Spotify Apple podcasts all those things um and I'm also starting a a new YouTube channel where I'm focusing more on astrology and spirituality specifically called ask Isaac so that should be up uh soon I'm G to be doing a more in-depth presentation on um my research into spiritual experien and spiritual practitioners and and Enlightenment and this kind of stuff we'll be doing some videos on that um so look for that if you're interested and then if you do want to I do I do am doing um uh consultations uh I'm doing them by donation currently so you can email me at info plant cutting.com if you're interested in in in scheduling one of those um yeah and yeah thank you for having me on the show ER this has been fun I hope I didn't like yeah really good like you know it's really good to see how uh two peoples will reflect on the same thing from two different understanding about life you see like I mean of course we growed up in uh different uh places even though I have the long hair like you know the long hair which you do and something simar to like you see yeah yeah exactly so anyway so yeah thank you for being on the show and I think we can talk about the plans of NRA and how does it work in a very detailed way very soon I feel like you know yeah that'd be great yeah yeah well thank you again yeah om Nam om